fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3408 ]

[ SECRET POST #3408 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3408 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #487.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Whose side and why?

Cap, duh.

I the comics because superhero registration is a slippery slope at best, it demonizes and exposes people who might have done nothing wrong.

In the film because I respect a man with principles, because he's right not to trust the government with those choices, and because I'd totally punch my way through everything for my best friend, too.

That being said, Tony's motivation was believable, so at least I'm happy with that.

I agree Tony was a lot better in this movie than in the comics.

HOWEVER. His entire schtick with supporting the Sokovia Accords was "Super heroes shouldn't just be allowed to do what they like" but then at the end decides to murder a man he knows to be innocent because He "doesn't care. He killed my mom". Tony is still such a hypocrite.

Also, I don't know how I feel about the Sokovia Accords. On the one hand, maybe some steps might be necessary, on the other hand, the guy telling the team about the accords, Gen. Ross, explicitly refers to their friends Banner and Thor as weapons. How does that not clue everyone into exactly what they intention behind the accords is? How does Tony, the guy who hacked the shield carrier in Avengers 1 because you can't trust the government, who refuses to give the government the secrets of his tech in iron man 2 for the same reason, how does he fail to notice that the government talked about two of his friends breaking contact as "Weapons going missing"?

I get Tony's ego is his flaw, but in this film it still seemed like they were making him a dumber hypocrite than he aught to have been.

His entire schtick with supporting the Sokovia Accords was "Super heroes shouldn't just be allowed to do what they like" but then at the end decides to murder a man he knows to be innocent because He "doesn't care. He killed my mom". Tony is still such a hypocrite.

He is - tough honestly I might be too, over my Mom. But mostly with Tony it's that he acts impulsively - he always did. He also feels guilty over Ultron, so it's him projecting his own fuck-ups unto others. It's sort of like the lady said, covering guilt up with charity, only it's covering guilt up with assuming the moral igh ground.

Also, I don't know how I feel about the Sokovia Accords.

I agree some steps might be necessary, but Steve totally has a point. He knows politics. the thing about being prevented from helping, or being sent to a cause they don't support absolutely is a legit worry. Also, this is a guy who found out an organisation he trusted was infested with HYDRA not long go - he has legit concerns.

"Weapons going missing"?

I think it's plain old denial and it only hits him when he sees Wanda in chains.

dumber hypocrite than he aught to have been.

I don't think he's dumb, but he is a hippocrite, uses double measures and is certainly self-serving.

I'm honestly not sure. Haven't seen the movie yet. But I both get the reason for requiring registration and get the resistance to it.

In the comics, Cap.

In the movies, character wise after the events of Cap 2 you could see why he was against the accords, but his response of not even considering negotiating a compromise was pretty unreasonable, and the damage he caused when he went rogue pretty much justified them all over again.

I don't think there has ever been a time when requiring a minority group to register with the government has led to anything good. So I am on Cap's side here.

Team Cap in the comic, Team Cap in the movie, Team Cap forever. This is not out of character bias - I love Tony, I do. But he's wrong here.

In the comics, Cap had that good speech about planting yourself by the river of truth. But really, the comic was about everybody being stupid.

I haven't seen the movie, but I'm guessing it's even more tilted toward Cap being right.

That was in the movie too, but it was repurposed as Peggy's speech for being feminist and staring down men. It's given at her funeral and steve takes inspiration from it.

In the movies, Iron Man on principle, though both sides wound up fucking up colossally.

Insisting on oversight and accountability for people who are actively going out and using superpowers as weapons against other human beings is not a bad thing. It's not the same thing as demanding registration and tracking for everyone who has a genetic anomaly, regardless of how it presents itself and what they intend to do with it. The idea that curbing random superpowered vigilantism is bad and wrong and invasive is...

Well, it's certainly incredibly American, but it reflects one of the worst parts of American culture.

The reason the comic version was stupid and I really wanted the MCU not to go there is that Marvel assumed that comic!Tony's "law & order" side was right, and then had him throw away the moral high ground with his actions.

If they'd just set up a system to have what I believe Bill Willingham called "Licensed Private Heroes," that'd be one thing. Instead they blew almost everyone's secret identity, conscripted whomever they could into the Fifty-State Initiative, and then sent a team of lunatics, sociopaths, & cannibals against whomever resisted. If the resisters survived, they got tossed in the Negative Zone.

It's pretty much impossible for the movie version to be as bad. But Iron Man was full villain by the end, and the heroes who took his side were being denounced as fascists by fans. It was the first RDJ Iron Man that rehabilitated the Iron Man trademark, and if that hadn't happened, almost nobody but old-school diehard Shellhead fans would see him as a hero.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3408 ]

Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

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Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man? (some spoilers, I guess)

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?

Re: Captain Right-merica or I-wrong man?