fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3409 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3409 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Prince, Warren Zevon, Ricky Wilson (of the B-52s), Kurt Cobain
John Lennon, Keith Moon, Jimi Hendrix, Nico
Freddie Mercury, Marvin Gaye, Janis Joplin, Amy Winehouse]

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03.

[Criminal Minds]

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04.

[Final Fantasy 7]

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05.

(The Amazing Race)

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06.

[Zootopia]

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07.

[DMMd/Pokemon]

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08.

[Saint Seiya]

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09.

[Freefall]

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10.

[Ministry of Abnormality/COMMISSIONED Comic]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 026 secrets from Secret Submission Post #487.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

idk, OP, I kind of feel the point of Tifa is that she's absolutely NOT girlfriend material. She spends at least half the game lying to Cloud and fueling his delusions, hiding her suspicions from the rest of Avalanche, and through her cowardice and insecurity she's ultimately responsible for paving the way for Sephiroth's mindfuck at the crater.

The game even highlights this pretty well imo. Tifa might be sweet-natured and "nurturing", but this is also her greatest failing. Her relationships are well-meant but harmful. She clings to childish daydreams and warps herself around this myth of Cloud Strife the brave hero because to do otherwise would be to acknowledge how damaging she's been to others. Meanwhile Aeris holds people at an arm's length and comes across as a bit callous, but she also never enables people the way Tifa does. Cloud's mom says he needs an older girlfriend who'll 'take care of him', and of the two women it's Aeris who actually succeeds at that by living and dying on her own terms rather than latching onto Cloud.

idk, OP, I kind of feel the point of Tifa is that she's absolutely NOT girlfriend material.

I don't think that's the "point" of Tifa's character but it is absolutely true.

Tifa and Cloud would not be a healthy match. If Tifa can't even tell Cloud something that's kind of VERY important, allowing it to escalate and blow up at the worst of moments, and she's willing to throw away everything else in life for Cloud... she is not going to have a healthy relationship with him.

I like Tifa but imo Aeris was clearly the better match, seemed like Cloud was always his best self around her. Actually, it's because I like Tifa that I don't want her to be with Cloud, I think she's her worst self around him.

That was poor phrasing, but I absolutely think the writers intended her to be seen as a bad friend/girlfriend and for it to be a major theme of her writing.

I mean, this is a character who's introduced to us with a really out-of-place flashback where she's reminiscing about a promise this near-stranger made to her when they were children. It's no accident that this is one of the most trite and awkward scenes in the game, that Tifa comes across instantly as a bit pushy and emotionally manipulative, and that Cloud clearly Does Not Reciprocate. It tells us exactly who Tifa is- someone clinging to a childish dream of being saved from her problems, who's going to project this role onto Cloud whether he likes it or not.

I can see where you're getting that, but I wouldn't credit Square writers for thinking that deeply at all. It's a shallow story full of shallow characters and plotholes everywhere. I think they were trying to write an ideal girlfriend character and then just failed due to their own incompetence. Compare Tifa to a host of cliched harem anime and you find she fits the childhood friend type to a T. Plus, keep in mind that lying to someone to protect them is often seen as a POSITIVE thing in Asia. It's very American to be like, "the truth and nothing but the truth!" Japanese people do not think that way, trust me.

I wouldn't give them any credit for any sort of subtle writing at all. And frankly, this was also an era of mildly shoddy translations, so it's debatable the original intentions even came across in the English version anyway.

And I say this as someone who has played FF7 multiple times and used to be a huge fan.

Tifa "clinging to her childish dream of being saved from her problems" is absolutely the kind of thing Japanese guys will see as romantic. There is a HUGE emphasis in Japan on a man "protecting" his girlfriend. "Mamoru" very, very often takes on this romantic tone when it's a guy protecting a girl.

All that stuff she says about Cloud being her hero MEANS she's in love with him, and the fact that he "protects" her is code for love. He doesn't have to SAY anything (because traditional Japanese men never say "I love you"), he just has to PROTECT her, and she must know without him saying it what that action really means.

When she goes on about wanting him to protect her, she means she wants to MARRY HIM and be with him forever. Man protecting woman=marriage.

It bugs me when people look at FF games through this totally Western lens and just...don't get common Japanese tropes. I mean, I guess it's more subtle, because there's a history in Japanese media of a "no kissing rule" and so much romance MUST be non-explicit, but there are clear codes for this stuff that you see over and over in Japanese film and media.

nayrt but while I absolutely imagine Tifa was intended to be the perfect girlfriend, to me, intention isn't canon, only the game is canon. So, when I look at Tifa, I see a lot of flaws, and that's okay, characters can be flawed, I'm not forced to interpret it as "perfect waifu" especially since she doesn't actually get with Cloud at the end. And I can't disagree enough that the characters and plot are "shallow". FFVII has some absolutely brilliant writing and characters, and while certainly there's a lot of influence from Japanese anime/game tropes, it's hardly defined by them.

Though woah as someone who lived in Japan for several years and speaks Japanese and has played this game in Japanese... I think you're jumping the gun a little when you suggest that Tifa is proposing marriage to Cloud when she says she wants a hero to protect her. That isn't what the Japanese means, nor does that remotely make sense in the context of the game.

LMAO aren't you the Japan expert. Dear, I'm so old I'm almost certain I've been studying Japanese culture longer than you and have seen more Japanese media than you have, and you sound like someone trying to prove how much you know about Japan and "Japanese tropes." While what you say is technically all true, the way you act like Japanese Writing all conforms to one standard and set of Japanese Tropes, and that there's no overlap with Western tropes, is ridiculous (Lying to someone to protect them and it being heroic is hardly Japanese-specific at all. Have you actually seen any American movies or TV?) and your assumption that you and nobody else knows exactly what the writing was trying to do because JAPAN is very condescending.

As an actually Japanese person, who lived a good chunk of her life in Japan, lmao what the hell are you talking about with "common Japanese tropes" and no-kissing rules?? That's...absolutely not a thing, not in recent (and by recent I mean in the last few decades) media and certainly not now. You're talking about old soap operas.

Tifa is in no way asking Cloud to marry her, metaphorically or otherwise-- she's in love with him, yes, that's clear enough, but this MAN PROTECTING WOMAN = MARRIAGE garbage you're spewing is pretty disgusting. And, you know, wrong. He's not declaring his love in return in "~code~" by protecting her. She's a girl in love with an ideal that he doesn't actually live up to, and they're very clear about that.

[ SECRET POST #3409 ]

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