fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3414 ]

[ SECRET POST #3414 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3414 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[The Property of Hate Webcomic]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #488.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I don't think it's out of line to expect people to make sacrifices for what they want. Is it unfair that some people have advantages that others don't? Hell to the yes. But life's not fair and yelling "BOOTSTRAPS!!" in opposition any time somebody acknowledges that sometimes you have to work harder and do without to get what you want -- and sometimes you don't get what you want -- is fucking obnoxious.

Signed: Somebody who worked hard and did without for a long time to get where they are.

Nah.

It's an unjust, broken system. Yeah, the reality is that you gotta make fucked-up sacrifices to succeed sometimes. But I refuse to assign any moral weight to someone who hasn't made those sacrifices - or to someone who has made those sacrifices and hasn't succeeded. The responsibility falls on the fucked-up system.

Come on. It's not a "fucked-up" sacrifice to be like 'hey, I only have $200 in my bank account right now, and maybe I should spend that on bills/food/other actual necessities instead of a new video game and four packs of Pokemon cards.'

Okay, that way of looking at it is obviously wrong - do you really think poverty exists in America because people are spending too much money on fucking Pokemon cards? And the fact that you've chosen to frame it that way implies to me that there's one of a few things possibly going on here:

1) You're responding to some kind of imagined idea of the choices people face in this economy, and are ignorant
2) You're really angry at one or two specific people and are just on tilt
3) You're an idiot or dickhead

You're in a fandom community. I think we both know people who have bought video games and Pokemon cards (or similar shit) when they really couldn't afford it. Hell, I've done that. There's systemic poverty, and then there's making bad choices within that poverty. It's really frankly insulting to act like poor people aren't resourceful.

I'm going to be "poor" this summer--I'm finishing up my program and currently don't have a full time job lined up. I'm going to have to be cheap for the next couple months and potentially a lot longer. This will probably involve giving up fancy coffee so I can buy food that isn't ramen, not see movies in the theater, not buy books or games or new clothes unless it's vital, things like that. I could be really silly and spend like I do when I have a reliable paycheck and run up my credit card, but that's unwise. I have to focus on rent.

I'm not a bad person if I break that plan and buy a video game! But that's unwise, especially when I have free options. Netflix is far cheaper than seeing movies in the theater. I can make coffee at home. I can use the library or download ebooks (helps if you like classics). There are so many free games, or mods for games I bought a couple years ago. A lot of people torrent--not criticizing them for that if they really can't see something otherwise. Actual impoverished people do this sort of thing every fucking day.

And you know what? If I really, really really want that game... I can deal with ramen for a week. I actually like it.

Edited 2016-05-10 20:06 (UTC)

When Bernie Sanders is President, he'll make Donald Trump buy me my Pokemon cards and there won't be any bills. So there.

Oh, it's been a while since we've had this argument.

Let's keep it that way.

Wow are you actually one of those "poor people are poor because they spend money on things they don't need" people

no

the scenario above doesn't really happen, if people are hungry they will eat, if they don't want to live in the rain they will pay their rent. some people have problems with money management but that's an individual problem, not a poor person's epidemic. and you can bet that people who have paid their bills and have a few bucks to spare will spend it on something that makes them happy.

You sound like someone for whom the established system worked. Congratulations.

Lol ok. Keep pretending you know fuck all about me. You have no idea how I've lived. And that's not an invitation, btw.

You think poor people spend too much money on Pokemon cards, and YOU want to yell at people for making presumptions about how others live their lives???

Fuck outta here

Sigh. Not the anon who made the pokemon comment.

You're only saying that because IP logging is off and Case can't say otherwise.

IP logging is on, my man

I see Dreamwidth has stopped alerting me to that in quick-replies. :|

It's only for anons.

IP logging isn't off, but I don't feel like pestering Case twice for the same thing in the same day. Believe what you want.

Okay, so you think the system does require real, substantial sacrifices for some people to succeed. Do you think those sacrifices are just? Do you think the system is just? Do you think that everyone who makes those sacrifices succeeds?

I'm sure you worked hard and gave up a lot to succeed. That doesn't make d_p wrong: if you succeeded, that means the system did work for you.

I don't know how to talk about systems. I know how to talk about life. And I'm pretty sure I said it isn't always fair. But you either do what it takes for what you want, change your goals/accept what you can't get, or you whine about it.

Hell no. Hell no, that's a terrible and stupid way to look at life. Because systems do matter and the conditions that exist in the world do matter, and they help determine the conditions of every person's life. Trying to detach anyone's life from that broader context is a fool's errand. No man is an island.

I never said there couldn't or shouldn't be change to help the greater good so that things AREN'T so inequal. But until that time, on an individual level, my points stand. And I think you HAVE to look at both the big and small pictures in life. The big being how society works, the small being how individual people work.

And there's a certain degree of responsibility on both sides. But the only one the individual can control is their own. The societal view requires a society to change. But I'm not going to keep this up if you're just going to call my thoughts -- and by extension me -- terrible and stupid.

Sorry if I came across too strong there, but I really don't think it makes sense as a way to look at the world and I think it leads to some really painful outcomes. Because I just don't think it's possible to look at the individual level on its own, in isolation. I agree that you need to look at both the macro pictures and the micro picture, but that doesn't mean dividing them into two separate spheres. They can only be made sense of in relation to each other. And yes, the only thing that individuals can control is their own actions. That's not the same as saying that they control their own destiny, and it doesn't speak to their responsibility to themselves or to the wider social milieu - those are things that can only be understood in the broader context. I really do think that placing total responsibility on peoples' individual actions, when you have a deeply broken and unjust system, is always going to be unfair and it's going to be harmful. The broken thing here is the system.

And also, just want to be clear, this doesn't diminish your accomplishments at all. You can still be proud of yourself for succeeding in a broken system.

NAYRT, or any of the anons in this thread--I don't know that I'd agree that people can only either work their asses off and maybe get what they want, fail at what they're working towards and move their goalposts so they can achieve a more manageable goal, even if it's not really what they want, or whine. I think a certain amount of whining is perfectly reasonable if someone worked their ass off, failed, and had to settle, and I say that as someone who maybe can't whine because my goal is a steady job with benefits and not some grand, all-consuming passion. I settled, but I admire people who refuse to settle, so long as they don't belittle people that do.

All I have to go on is what you said, anon. You said you worked really hard and did without, and had some (implied and unspecified) measure of success (got where you are now). i.e. you worked within the existing system and in panned out for you.

The implication that it will pan out for everyone who works within the system is naive. Not everyone is so lucky. And that has nothing to do with you or your life.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3414 ]

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