[ SECRET POST #3420 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3420 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Banana Fish]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #489.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/SFppnso.png
[Banana Fish]

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, people think Eiji and that guy at the end is a canon pairing?

[(Anonymous)]

Yep. There's literally one line of maybe slight subtext coming from Sing in the 10 year retrospective, which Eiji seems to gently turn down, whatever Sing meant by it, and that's it. I think it's more a case of people knowing it's a manga where there is Boy's Love, and so they're taking EVERYTHING as Boy's Love. I do think Sing possibly feels a conflicted mix of affection, guilt, remorse, and maybe he has a slight crush on Eiji, but reading "Garden of Light" makes it obvious that Eiji hasn't let go, and that he's not willing now, and maybe not ever again, to romantically open up to anyone.

[luxshine]

I was just going to say this. I mean, I do have the whole series, and at one point I downloaded that one future story Akemi did for I think was an artbook and it is pretty, pretty clear that Eiji NEVER let go of what happened in the series.

I'd actually pity any guy who ended up with Eiji as that shadow is never going to dissapear.

[(Anonymous)]

The future story can be found here under volume 19 (http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Banana-Fish/Vol-001-Part-001-Read-Online?id=173572) if you want to reread it. But yeah, reading "The Garden Of Light" just kind of proves that everyone is slowly moving on but Eiji. Sing and Akira eventually get together (which was sweet actually, I liked their interactions in TGOL), people are moving on...but for Eiji, Ash will never disappear. The part where he sees someone who looks like Ash from the back is proof enough of that. He's still seeing him wherever he goes, and even banishing his private photograph memories of Ash into an old shoebox hasn't made any difference at all.

To be honest I kind of feel like Eiji became...asexual in a way? Like...there's no doubt that what he felt for Ash was romantic and sexual and all that (lol, I do have to laugh when Sing is like "it's not like their relationship was sexual or anything", because a)why would he know if it was, Eiji has been bottling up his feelings and memories of Ash for seven years and hasn't talked about him, and b)literally half the photos Eiji has of Ash are suggestive of a physical intimacy that very much could have been sexual, including several photos that look like photos only a lover would take), but post-canon Eiji seems almost like he's uninterested entirely in romance and sex with either gender (that's the thing too, we don't even really know much about Eiji, was he gay, bi, or, and I think this is more likely, was Eiji just swept up in Ash, period?).

I think it's pretty obvious that Ash is never going to be far from Eiji's mind. Any person who tried to create romantic intimacy with him will be battling a ghost they can't win against. It's...very sad, and what a shitty ending in general (tbh the way Ash bit the dust is stupid as fuck and I don't buy that Ash would have just given up like that, it was entirely decided by River Phoenix dying and Yoshida deciding to make Ash die too at the last second to "honour" him, and I could swear I've read even Ms. Yoshida regrets going down that path), but if it had to end that way, it's also very realistic. Some people just never get over that.

[shahrizai]

Literally the only thing I know about this series is that the yaoi fans like it. Of course, it's also old enough that they were taking anything they could get...

[(Anonymous)]

OP

You're doing it a disservice if you think BL fans only enjoyed it because they only had so many choices. (And on that note, hell, they do it even today with series like Free!, it's not like all that much has changed, except Banana Fish IS BL, and states pretty much outright that Ash and Eiji were romantically involved, and basically soulmates.) Even though the ending is enough to make pretty much the entire fanbase grit their teeth, the manga itself is...it is incredibly well written. Ash and Eiji are one of the best BL couples around. Akimi Yoshida wasn't afraid to give us romantic illustrations, and even some erotically charged ones. (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4WYOt49DKRk/UmO-kU7SSiI/AAAAAAAAP3E/gNqrTchuIzw/s0/Banana%252520Fish%252520v19%252520-%252520095.jpg Ash getting oiled up by Eiji on the beach is just one of sensual illustrations done. One of my favourites is an illustration of both of them in suits, and Ash is possessively dipping Eiji and kissing his neck.)

If you're interested in reading it, Kissmanga has the entire series up:
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Banana-Fish/Vol-001-Part-001-Read-Online?id=173572

It will gut you, but it's so, so good. Truly a classic in the BL genre, and a classic in it's own right.

[(Anonymous)]

It's actually really good, although dated. And if you like Tokyo Babylon you would probably like Banana Fish too :)

[lb_lee]

Wow, I feel weirdly famous now, getting cited in a secret. One about BANANA FISH no less.

My feelings on BL are... complicated... (I kinda prefer the the gay manga/bara side of the spectrum) but if I were to read this series, it sounds like I should just be there for the crime stuff. If I want my actual queerness I can read... well, you know. Stuff that doesn't end in tragedy.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Well, if you're interested in reading it, here's the manga on KissAnime (http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Banana-Fish/Vol-001-Part-001-Read-Online?id=173572).

Honestly, I'm exactly like you, and I have extremely complicated feelings on BL. I absolutely hate the rape-is-love, abusive tactics, stoic semes, forced bedroom roles based on appearances, and more. Frankly I hate more yaoi/BL than I like. (Naono Bohra is one of my few exceptions, and I love her art simply because it's not so....yaoi like lol. I jokingly call her stuff "bara lite".)

Banana Fish is still worth investing in for the characters and their relationship. It doesn't pull any punches. It's stated that Eiji was absolutely in love with Ash. At one point a character asks "Was this Ash person Eiji's...lover?" and the other character replies "More than that." They're more realistic and multidimensional than basically every other BL manga out there. Is it your usual BL fare? No. But that's why I like it. Usual BL fare bores me. I need something different to hook me.

Let some of the reviews on MangaUpdates (https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=5753&method=useful) persuade you. :) There's a reason why so many people are saying "it's the best manga I've ever read".

Out of curiousity though, as a fellow trans man, I'm curious what your complicated feelings on BL are all about. If you don't mind, I'd enjoy hearing about them! I'm the same, I prefer softer bara (as in not hypermuscular dudes) like Mentaiko, but there is some BL I enjoy.

[lb_lee]

Oh wow, I never expected to run into someone with similar tastes to me!

My sister Miranda LOVES Naono Bohra. (I think "Electricity" was her favorite.) It's not quite my thing, though I appreciate it on a craft level. My husband really loves Mentaiko, and I like him too! (Did you know Massive has translated and is now selling his Priapus book? Guess what I'm getting hubby when I get a chance!)

Yeah, I'm dragging my heels on Banana Fish because SO LONG, and also I really, REALLY hate terrible endings. I don't suppose it's a comic where I can just stop at a certain point and be satisfied?

As for my feelings about BL... well, yes, the rapey bit is there, but honestly, a LOT of things involving porn are horribly rapey, unless I specifically go looking for certain buzzwords. There are a couple components.

First: I do not look like the guys in BL. I look like the guys in gay manga/bara. (Which is why my hubby likes Mentaiko; he draws a lot of guys who look kinda like me.) So there's a personal click thing there--I haven't been able to find representation of guys who look like me in US porn much at all, but boy howdy, can I find it in gay manga!

Second: as a gay man, I feel like BL is generally not for me. Reading it just kinda makes me feel icky, like my queerness is being fetishized and commodified. I mean, I'm not going to judge anyone for reading or enjoying it, I understand its importance to a lot of people, and that the readers aren't necessarily straight, thus why I said my feelings were complicated. But it doesn't feel like something I can identify with much, unless it hits that sorta center spot between BL and bara, since there are certainly some crossover artists.

And third, which is the most superficial and the silliest: due to having a couple rapists who were very willowy and (in one case) androgynous, I have a kneejerk dislike of that body type. Gay manga is pretty safe--no one who has attacked me looks like them, and if I'm reading porn, I SO do not want to be reminded of my attackers.

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Hah, there must be dozens of us!

Naono Bohra's work is best for me when she's dealing with older men, disabled men (holy shit I've never seen so many different disabled people in BL before and her work is gorgeous without being fetishizing of the disability itself, which is a HARD line to tread for most artists), and honestly with large ages gaps. She definitely has a few stinkers though, as I think most prolific artists with large catalogues of work do. :P

As for Mentaiko's translated work, I had no idea this was being officially translated in English but now I know what I'm getting with my next paycheck! Yessss.

Banana Fish...I mean, technically you can stop before the ending. The meat of the story is what is amazing, not the ending itself. I'm allergic to angst and tragedy, and maybe that's partly why this has stuck with me for so long, because it's so incredible despite me feeling like I needed an injection of endorphins after reading the ending and the epilogue. If it's any consolation, it sounds like the ending was a bit of a clusterfuck where Yoshida was pondering what to do, and was being pushed a bit to make it angsty instead of happy (and it's pretty obvious too, because the circumstances being set up really seemed like she was gearing up for a much different ending). But I wouldn't let the second half of the last manga spoil 18 incredible volumes for you. :) It's very much a classic that sticks with you.

Haha, I'm kind of a mix between a BL look and a bara lite kind of guy. I'm short at 5'5'' and gay lingo would peg me as a bit of an 'otter'. It's one of the reasons I tend to enjoy that hard-to-find sweet spot right between BL and Bara. Bara is...as complicated for me as BL is. One moment you're reading about anonymous gay sex in a bathroom stall and then the next suddenly you've wandered down the rabbit hole and a quadruple amputee is being fucked with his own pickled, severed forearm, and you kind of just go "what the fuck am I doing with my life?" in response, lol. I find the hyper muscles and tiny heads of many bara artists as unappealing as the willy, a-strong-wind-will-break-his-spine ukes and long limbed semes of BL. Mentaiko, BlackMonkeyPro, Naop, and the Chinese artist Lovely Hollow (her Doflamingo x Crocodile One Piece doujinshis are...daaamn, hot, and not to mention she's drawn a couple switching photos of those two, which is so sadly rare in both BL and bara) are more my comfort level. I'm not really into bara like say...this:

(NSFW) http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdxtf3Aj4g1rincwao1_1280.jpg
http://cdn.photonesta.com/images/fdzeta.com/subir/images/wnED.jpg

That's why I tend to say I enjoy that sweet spot between the two genres, even if my tastes definitely fall more along the bara side of things. I often find the characters I happily ship in mainstream series tend to fit that bara/bara lite mold to. (I'm one of the Sengoku Basara anons, and characters like Katakura Kojuurou ring my bell, and even the more "bishie" looking guys are still more along the lines of the lean, strong warrior type and not the willowy limbed stick figures you find in BL.)

As for the fetishization and commodification of yaoi/BL...yeaaahhh, I admit I feel that way too. And it's not even that I feel like BL is "not for me", I more feel like sometimes it's more of people taking what isn't theirs. As a trans person I already feel the sting of fetishization because of something I cannot control, and then adding my sexuality being commodified on top of that just...meh. I don't know, I normally don't really get into how this all makes me feel because without fail someone will show up and tell me how A)I'm a trans man, so apparently I don't get a say in how the genre fetishizes cis men (although trans men are making an appearance, I've noticed a surge in "cunt boy" stuff from Japan and in the West it's actual trans male identities instead of "dude magically gains a vagina for some reason!"), and B)That I'm not entitled to feel put-out and a little upset by how dismissive the slash/BL/Yaoi fandom is at large about the fetishization aspects. It strikes me as so weird to go onto a tumblr and see a girl reblog "trans women NEED to be protected from gross fetishists" and then a minute later make a self post basically squealing "OMG TEH GHEEEEYYY, IT'S SO HOT", and I wonder at the cognitive dissonance.

Again, I mostly stay out of it, and I don't really bring it up. I'm just bringing it up because it sounds like you perhaps might understand what I'm feeling a little bit.


Aaand lastly, I'm sorry to hear about your past man. I know the feeling, I'm a survivor of childhood sexual assault, I guess I'm just "lucky" in the sense that my rapist was about as far from any ideal of masculine beauty as you could get, whether we're talking about BL, or bara.

[lb_lee]

Miranda: Ooooh, do share your Bohra favorites! I am SORELY out of date; the last time I went searching for her, it must've been... goodness, 2010 or something. I would love to see more!

Rogan: And I'm down for any disabled or older guy love. Glad to help with the Mentaiko! As a comics creator, I have Strong Feelings about my fellows in the business, and really want to help support them so they can make more awesome stuff. I'm STILL mad that there are some comics creators who I badly want to send money too, but I just CAN NOT find any sort of English language link that allows me to do so! D:

I mean, I take it as a given that nobody's really into ALL BL or ALL gay manga. It's like saying someone's into ALL OF PORN. It's always trying to find that 10% you like.

Yeeeeeah, I know what you mean. Like, I'm willing to talk about it here, because F!S posts go dead in like, twenty-four hours or less, and it's buried in a big thread, but I'd NEVER dare discuss it on, say, tumblr. And the thing is, I know a lot of QUEER women who like BL, and I know there are queer guys who do too, plus there's the whole history of women's sexual art being discounted and dismissed, so it's a lot more complicated than all that. There's still this edge of discomfort there for me, though.

Heh, it's okay, it was a long time ago. But I'm not surprised both of my partners are burly jock boys, haha. I guess my libido wanted to get as far away from that history as it could get!

[(Anonymous)]

Hi OP! Was the one who made the comment :P - thanks for pointing that out! Would have been convinced I was right for ages, read the manga long ago and oddly, wasn't in the fandom at all. Don't remember why I thought that since when I looked at the ending again it's just a mention. Thanks for letting me know there's a future story but that'd require me re-reading 19 volumes as I so don't remember an Akira D: .

(Late anon is late since imgur didn't load for him)