fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3430 ]

[ SECRET POST #3430 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3430 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[A Game of Thrones, Brienne of Tarth/Tormund Giantsbane]

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02.

[Lupita Nyong'o]

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03.

[Tolkien/Lord of the Rings]

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04.

[Doctor Thorne miniseries, based on the book by Anthony Trollope]

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05.

[Top Row (L-R): Orihara Izaya (Durarara!!), Akashi Seijuurou (Kuroko no Basuke), Levi (Shingeki no Kyojin), Free Cell (Phi Brain), Choromatsu (Osomatsu-san)
Bottom Row (L-R): Satomi Riou (Hakkenden), Kusatsu Kinshirou (Boueibu), Souma Hiroomi (Working!!), Takeda Ittetsu (Haikyuu!!), Natsume Takashi (Natsume Yuujinchou)]

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06.

[Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]

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07.

[The Night Manager]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 14 secrets from Secret Submission Post #490.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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What do you expect EVIL super Nazis to do if they can change the past? This. This evil thing. That is exactly what evil super Nazis would do.

Someone in the real world chose to right a story where Nazis make Captain America a Nazis, though. This isn't happening in real life. Someone chose to do it.

So? Captain America won't be the first or last superhero to become evil.

And you don't think that Marvel mayyyyyy have some kind of twist to the whole thing? Do you really think Marvel would turn one of their most iconic characters into a Nazi and not have it be mind control/magic/time travel/triple agent/space squid/etc?

I'm sure they have a twist. But they also chose to present the story this way and promote this specific image as something standing on its own, and given that choice, I don't think it's wrong to judge it as they present it.

I'd think that when it comes to comics, it would be silly not to wait to see how it unfolds. Comics of this kind are not meant to be taken as a singularity.

But - again - inasmuch as they chose to use this image and event as a tool for building buzz, I think we can analyze it as an image, that they chose to put out there as an image.

Like I've said I'm not sure how much credit we should give Marvel, in terms of viewing the story as a whole, when they've designed it this way because it works for their business.

The image is what, though? That Steve Rogers might be secretly evil?

This kind of stuff doesn't reflect on the writers. It doesn't mean they hate Jewish people or whatever nonsense the Tumblr/Twitter-sphere has come with.

It means that Marvel is trying to come up with something shocking to draw in readers. That's it.

I just want to point out that the same way people can be homophobic without literally harboring a deep hatred for gay people in their hearts, the same is true for antisemitism (and most bigotry).

If they were framing this as a good thing, I could see that. But I doubt they are. Hydra is evil and their beliefs are evil. Thus, Steve being Hydra is a bad thing.

Edited 2016-05-25 23:53 (UTC)

True, it's just that Marvel has been kind of shitty about their Jewish characters. In that lately, you can hardly tell there even are any.

Re: Captain America:-General spoiler warning

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-26 00:35 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Captain America:-General spoiler warning

ketita - 2016-05-26 00:40 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Captain America:-General spoiler warning

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-26 01:55 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Captain America:-General spoiler warning

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-26 21:17 (UTC) - Expand

And? You gotta have something more to back that up. Bad things happen to good heroes all the time. The better the hero the more likely they are to be a target of someone wanting to turn them evil (or into a werewolf, fun fact, Cap has been both already; more than once too). It is a basic narrative trope, and when your main nemesis is a literal nazi that is gonna happen.

It's not like it's a law of nature that it was going to happen. Someone chose to do it. I think that was a dumb choice because of who Cap is as a character, in a way that turning him into a werewolf isn't.

Excuse you, turning him into a werewolf was amazing and beautiful.

An evil nazi who has a very personal beef with Captain America no less. Of course he is going to tear down the man in the most personal way he can. That is what this part of the storyline is, the tearing down, the demonstration of pettiness so the hero can rise again, stronger than before.

It is also a meta commentary on the Trump White House run and how evil can be insidious, creeping in a little at a time, corrupting even the best men, which is a message I think many Jews who lived through the prelude to the Holocaust would be able to relate to.

There's a balance that has to be struck, though, between an analysis of the origins of the thing, and a unambiguous, fully informed moral condemnation of its evil, and I'm not sure having Cap be a Nazi serves that end.

Well we could try waiting for more than a single comic panel that set up the cliffhanger to be produced, that would be a start.

When you're writing a cliffhanger like this - explicitly for the purpose of publicity and buzz, as well - I'm not sure you really have a lot of ground to stand on as regards the purity of storytelling and approaching the whole narrative in its entirety. Theyre the ones who chose to put this panel into the world. They knew it would get buzz and wanted it to get buzz. That's the whole point of this.

If Cap has been brainwashed by Hydra, that's not insidious corruption of a good man. That's brainwashing, like happens every other day in comics. It's hardly a deep commentary on anything.

I think they're just trying to be edgy.

Not brainwashed, reality rewritten (in-universe) by a super-villain. There is a difference.

Well, if the villain rewrote reality, that's still not Cap being corrupted, it's reality being corrupted. Either way, it's somebody walking in and going *erase personality/ideals* *input other personality/ideals*. It's not very thought provoking.

This is also a good point.

"Super villains made Cap evil with magic" isn't a very insightful analysis of fascism.

It makes perfect sense as to why Marvel would have Red Skull do something like that. And is silly to think there isn't a big story going on that will make it make MORE sense (as much sense as a comic can make).

Look, I'm not flipping out because I'm not that invested, and overall it's just a silly plotline that will presumably be resolved.
But Marvel statements that I've seen are acting like it's so deep and meaningful or something, like oh, how shocking that he's actually evil!! Rethink your feelings, America!!
And I am rethinking my feelings, mostly about them and their edginess. They could have done it in a different way.

(then again, one of the reasons I don't read much Captain America comics is because I got sick of BRAINWASHING!! happening twice a day there)

At least this doesn't involving killing someone again (yet) and acting like he is totally going to stay dead this time.

THEY KILLED HIS PERSONALITY THOUGH

jk jk though it's kind of the same thing, really, just from a different direction

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