[ SECRET POST #3435 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3435 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 38 secrets from Secret Submission Post #491.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[diet_poison]

You seem to be unable to understand, based on this and other comments, that there are different degrees of badness and hurt. Cheating on someone, hitting them outside of self-defense, or publicly humiliating them as a form of control or out of malice are FAR worse than, say, accidentally using a name they don't like, playing a low-level prank, or saying something mean in a heated moment. Like we all do bad things, and mean things, but people make choices about doing things that really, seriously hurt others. Just because I have accidentally said hurtful things or been late to dinner dates doesn't mean that I don't deserve forgiveness for those if I am reluctant to forgive someone for hurting me far more seriously.

Also, you are twisting the meaning of the golden rule in a way that is set up to guilt trip people for not being perfect victims, and yes, I am willing to call that selfish and toxic. The golden rule should be applied to yourself, not twisted and used to beat other people over the head for not being as self-sacrificing as you think they should be to accept that they're not terrible people. That's honestly pretty manipulative. Nobody is entitled to forgiveness.

(And for the record, I am very pro-forgiveness, but I think it should be done for the right reasons; believing you won't ever deserve to be forgiven for minor fuckups if you don't do it is not the right reason, and nor is believing that you have to save up forgiveness karma in case you ever make a big screw up so you'll have enough in the bank for someone else to forgive you.)

[(Anonymous)]

I feel you're setting up a false dichotomy between "really bad" acts like cheating or publicly humiliating someone out of malice or for the sake of control, and "low-level" acts like snapping at someone when you're stressed or being late to a dinner date, which you are willing to regard as forgivable because you don't see them as serious, and they were accidental or done in a heated moment rather than with malice aforethought. (Really, how petty would you have to be to refuse to forgive someone for being late to a dinner date?)

You're proceeding from the assumption that "real, serious hurt" is always inflicted deliberately and not thoughtlessly, that what we perceive as "minor fuckups" never do major harm. (I'm also getting the vibe that you are operating from the premise that you are a person who has never and would never really, seriously hurt anyone, so you don't have to worry about doing anything that someone might refuse to forgive you for.)

Please point me to where I have said anyone is "entitled" to forgiveness, or where I laid down any requirements for being a "perfect victim." And I certainly never suggested that treating others as you would hope to be treated yourself is a deposit of karma in the forgiveness bank. It's certainly not a guarantee and I never suggested that it was one. If anyone is twisting the Golden Rule, it is you.

[diet_poison]

If it's not about karma or deserving then what is the point in basing your forgiveness of people on whether you'd want them to do it to you?

Unless you're just talking about having empathy for people, by putting yourself in their shoes, but if that's the case there are definitely other factors that going into forgiving someone. And forgiving someone does not always mean telling them about it, so empathy doesn't always play a role.

There's forgiving (which should be done for the benefit of the forgiver) and accepting/giving another chance, which is done for the benefit of the forgivee (or possibly both), and which the forgivee is NOT entitled to and should not be done only because the forgiver...wants to make sure they deserve to be forgiven or whatever. Or even only just because the forgiver feels bad about it, especially because the forgivee may be using guilt to manipulate them into maintaining a relationship.

Nobody is entitled to forgiveness. Choosing whether to let someone stay in your life should be done based on what you think is healthiest and what seems right, not whether they "deserve" it or whether you'd want someone to do it for you. That leads to unhealthy relationships.

(I hope I'm wording myself right.)