fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3444 ]

[ SECRET POST #3444 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3444 ⌋

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Anti-vaccine movements are a personal rage button for me, but at the end of the day, these are people who are trying to do the best thing for their children to keep them safe and healthy. I've spoken to anti vaxxers and they are genuinely terrified of what they falsely believe is in vaccines ad the effect it could have on their kids. Given their passion, they might actually have a really good autism awareness / medical awareness movement on their hands if they could educate themselves with sources that are actually GOOD.

No. They are being willfully ignorant.

Again, I know quite a few, and they have many sources for their belief, they just lack the ability to discern good sources from bad. Ignorance, yes, but not willful ignorance.

It is willful ignorance when you endanger not only YOUR child's life, but other people's children.

I would argue that willful implies intent, and these people believe they're doing proper research. I'm not arguing about ignorancr, they're definitely ignorant I just don't think it's "willful".

I mean that's not the definition of "willful ignorance"

It's stupid and reckless and should be illegal, but "willful ignorance" refers to how an action came about, not the action itself

Heard immunity. It's a wonderful thing the anti-vaxxers really should take to heart.

Ugh, I've already had to talk to some of my relatives about how it works, because they didn't get why I cared so much that their kids weren't vaccinated if vaccines worked.

I hate this attitude. It's not just about the herd immunity thing either. I also wonder if they think it's weird that I care about their kids too, because their kid are also people who are vulnerable and deserve proper medical care.

Re: Well-intentioned social movements that annoy you

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-06-09 01:20 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Well-intentioned social movements that annoy you

diet_poison - 2016-06-09 17:34 (UTC) - Expand

Unfortunately, most of them seem to take herd immunity as another reason why they shouldn't vaccinate. If their child benefits from it, they don't need vaccines! If it breaks down because too many idiots are failing to get their children vaccinated, it proves vaccines aren't really important for public health!

It's completely backasswards logic, but they've fixated so hard there's no talking sense to them.

B-but...THAT MAKES NO SENSE! How can they be protected when they not? They're just causing complications for the future, not fixing them. They're potentially breeding super bugs and bringing back old diseases that we had under control until they decided to cause outbreaks by not vaccinating.

I really don't get some people. I really, really don't.

I'd agree with you except that so many of the people you're talking about are online and could easily research the topic on their own or consult their own doctors... but they're not. Instead, they're spending a great deal of energy visiting pseudo-scientific sources AND spread them like it's the gospel truth. At some point, refusing to educate yourself even though you have the opportunity to do so is willful ignorance in my book.

could easily research the topic on their own

Yes, and they do. You even said flat out they're spending a great deal of energy visiting pseudo-scientific sources That IS research. It is just research that is resulting in bad sources, which these people are unable to differentiate from good sources. Which is the very definition of ignorance, it's not willful ignorance if you do all these research and come up with the wrong answer because you don't know any better.

Okay, but if you google "do vaccines cause autism", the whole first page of results are links that say nope, they don't. The second result is the CDC. At this point, you kind of have to be living under a rock to NOT stumble across sources that say there is no scientific basis for the belief that vaccines cause autism. I have a very difficult time believing that these parents you speak of have done so much work and yet managed to avoid anything even remotely like a good source.

Re: Well-intentioned social movements that annoy you

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-06-09 14:07 (UTC) - Expand

In general, I think society is way too immediately judgmental and vicious. Obviously anti-vaxxers are wrong, but someone being wrong doesn't mean their heart is in the wrong place or they aren't well-meaning. I agree people are responsible for their own ignorance (to a large extent anyway) but I also think compassion and understanding actually go a long way in connecting with people and changing minds.

Exactly. My heart actually breaks for antivaxxers, because they want so badly to be good parents.

I don't care if their heart is in the 'right place' if they put my niece, nephew or (senior) mother at risk with a fucking disease that we basically *wiped out* through vaccinations. Fuck that.

There is a point at which you have to stop saying "they mean well tho".

When they're putting other actual living human beings' lives at risk through their arrogance and willful ignorance, we've blasted well past that point.

Yep, this.

Mostly I can't help but feel a bit bad for parents who believe their kid is autistic because of vaccines, only to be called morons for not understanding why their kid went from being "normal" to getting sick after receiving a vaccine and suddenly developing symptoms. I think people need to actually address that without just saying "you're an idiot and I bet you don't even love your child."

The problem is that people don't understand that correlation =/= causation, and signs of autism tend to crop up around the same time most children get the MMR vaccine, so people panic. They want something to blame, so that they can then avoid that thing and feel like they fixed everything.

I've literally never come across anyone who says that last phrase. But honestly, if you stick your fingers in your ears going *la la la I can't hear you* when other autism parents give you a perfectly reasonable explanation - autistic traits start to manifest around the same chronological time as most shots are given, and would and do do so whether someone gets the shots or not - you are being stupid, or at least very closed minded.

People can be well meaning and still horrible parents. But I feel you.

The worst part is that the people I know are otherwise wonderful parents.

I'm sure :(

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