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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2016-06-12 03:33 pm
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[ SECRET POST #3448 ]


⌈ Secret Post #3448 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #493.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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sarillia: (Default)

[personal profile] sarillia 2016-06-12 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Can someone explain to me how the whole "it's cartoons so it's not real and that means it's not hurting anyone" argument works? Live action stuff isn't real too. Both of those are only representations of the situation. The line dividing the two seems kind of arbitrary to me.
blitzwing: the batman symbol in the rainbow gay pride colors ([batman--gay pride])

[personal profile] blitzwing 2016-06-12 08:28 pm (UTC)(link)
The people that say things like "it's cartoons so it's not real and that means it's not hurting anyone" usually apply that logic to live action fiction like SPN as well.
sarillia: (Default)

[personal profile] sarillia 2016-06-12 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
That would make much more sense but people specifically bring up the fact that animated stuff is animated all the time, not that it's fiction. Plenty of other people make arguments about all things that are fiction but there are still those who focus on the cartoons angle for reasons I don't get.
blitzwing: the batman symbol in the rainbow gay pride colors ([batman--gay pride])

[personal profile] blitzwing 2016-06-12 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
It's just being specific because that's the medium it's for. IDK if you've ever witnessed any of the antis for video games, but people in those fandoms will often say "It's a friggin' video game ffs!" or something along those lines.

Probably the same for live action. I think I've seen "It's just a TV show, chill".

When you're talking about a specific fandom, specifying the media format is not meant to be saying "It's okay in cartoons, but not in comics/live actions/video games" or "It's okay in video games, but not comics/live action/tv".

(Anonymous) 2016-06-12 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)
It actually is meant to say that a lot of the time when it comes to things like incest and (especially!) underage sexual content. Primarily because in cartoons, it's wholly invented - it isn't just the story that's fictional, the images are also wholly constructed, so there's no use of real people's images. It's essentially saying that no real people are hurt, because no real people are involved. (Writers, animators, and voice actors apparently don't exist in these people's eyes.)
fishnchips: (Kenma: Ehhh)

[personal profile] fishnchips 2016-06-12 08:58 pm (UTC)(link)
The only thing I could think of why someone would make a special case for cartoons but not for live action stuff is because - ignoring the voice actors- there are no real people actors attached to the roles? I guess real humans playing a role makes some people more uncomfortable than animated characters?

(Anonymous) 2016-06-12 10:30 pm (UTC)(link)
as someone who is in blmatsu, it's not even canon. it's completely fandom and separate from the show (even though they do pander). it's easier because all six of them are adults. dont let the art fool you.

it does help that 5/6 of the voice actors had done previous BL work but everything is 18+ and ran by mostly adults in the fandom.
fishnchips: (Default)

[personal profile] fishnchips 2016-06-12 10:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, no, I know that! I ... may have been passively shipping some of them myself /cough
I just tried to find a general explanation why some people use the "it's fiction, so it doesn't hurt anyone" when it's about cartoons but not when it's about shows/movies with real actors.

(Anonymous) 2016-06-12 10:47 pm (UTC)(link)
ah, my bad! i'm honestly so highly defensive over this because i've had a buddy harassed by these antis (who don't even ship them; they just happen to share similar name on twitter to someone who's on tumblr) and i see my friends going "those cra~zy blmatsus!" (thanks @cringematsu).

but to add to the discussion: for me personally, as long as they're adults, i think its fine in the fictional sense and it's not presented in canon. if you'd ask me to ship the brother and sister in "my sister can't be this cute!" i'll look at you with so much judgement. but with osomatsu-san? its not canon thus there's a little bit more freedom to it.
fishnchips: (Default)

[personal profile] fishnchips 2016-06-13 10:03 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry for the late reply - timezones, ugh.

I get being overly offensive because of getting harrassed. I've had the same problem before in other fandoms (and I've seen a lot of it in the Star Wars fandom, so much so that I support shippers of the Reylo ship even though I actually don't like the ship itself at all).

I generally think people should feel free to ship whatever they want as long as they don't bother people with it (like invading tags their ship doesn't belong in on tumblr etc.). The vast majority of people ships pairings and dynamics that they would still disapprove of in reality, and the latter is the opinion that counts more, in my eyes.

(Anonymous) 2016-06-13 05:43 am (UTC)(link)
I'm assuming that the person that hasn't done BL voice work is Miyu Irino? The cast is one of the main draws for me so I'm curious

(Anonymous) 2016-06-13 05:53 am (UTC)(link)
same anon

yep, you're correct in assuming. i'm wondering if it's because he's newish to the scene and just starting out. i also didn't know he voices all of ichimatsu's cats!

(Anonymous) 2016-06-13 08:45 am (UTC)(link)
He's actually been in the business for at least ten years I think, but he's quite young (only in his late 20s) so maybe he just hasn't had the chance ^.^''' Wow, he does?

fiction =/= reality

(Anonymous) 2016-06-12 11:47 pm (UTC)(link)
The same way people play violent video games that make them kill people yet they have no desire to do so in real life. If you already have a proclivity towards violence, or anything else 'problematic' in fiction, then it's something already there and not BECAUSE of fictional stuff like movies/tv/games/books.

I know a lot of religious people wanted to burn Harry Potter books because they thought it made kids satanist, does it? Maybe some of them, but it's not a result of the book itself.

(Anonymous) 2016-06-13 12:37 am (UTC)(link)
I know for me the difference is whether the characters are represented by drawings or people.

Live action shows? Have real life actors/actresses in them doing real life things. The same reason the thought of doing anything with, for example, an actual child turns my stomach. A child character in a live-action series is played by an actual child. Which makes me go "oh HELL no!"

But when it's stylized like the Osomatsus or, say, Ciel Phantomhive.. they are human-like, but not actual humans. There is exaggeration somewhere that makes it more fantastical. So my brain applies the same logic it does to supernatural creatures like werewolves or vampires.

Aka those aren't real kids. They're alien beings who vaguely resemble human children.

[personal profile] juliamon 2016-06-13 03:48 am (UTC)(link)
Similar to this, the discrepancy between an animated character and their voice actor (and the voice actor's other roles) results in a lot of crossed wires in my head. Specific example: I have no problem with either twincest ship in Gravity Falls, because I know none of the actors are related... but I get uncomfortable when I see Kristen Schaal in anything even remotely sexual in nature because of her roles as Mabel and Louise even though she's actually 38 and not even remotely a preteen.

(Anonymous) 2016-06-13 04:05 am (UTC)(link)
Specific example: I have no problem with either twincest ship in Gravity Falls, because I know none of the actors are related

This reminded me of something I want to make a secret about, so I'm going to keep it vague, but how would you feel about shipping something where the actors were related (whether the characters were or not)? I'm kind of in that situation at the moment and it's making me very conflicted. :(

[personal profile] juliamon 2016-06-13 04:15 am (UTC)(link)
That would... probably bother me a bit, maybe? But if the characters weren't related, it might be a bit easier to let myself ship it. Probably. I don't know, I think I'd have to actually deal with that situation to have a good answer. You should make that secret! It's an interesting problem.

(Anonymous) 2016-06-13 04:35 am (UTC)(link)
ayrt

Yeah, it's just making me feel uneasy. It's hard to say whether the characters are related in this case (it's...complicated) but I keep trying to tell myself it shouldn't matter if the actors are related or not because it's not them I'm shipping, it's their characters. It's not totally working though lol.

I think I will make the secret! I've never seen this kind of thing mentioned here so I guess it could make for an interesting discussion, maybe.
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