fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #447 ]

⌈ Secret Post #447 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 71 secrets from Secret Submission Post #064.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - whatx2 ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

ACTUALLY, s/he does. dakuten u + a = va, officially. That it's pronounced more wa-ish doesn't make the secret poster wrong, per se.

Nevermind that "Ishbal" is STILL right because Funimation used it and people using Ishbal just shows they bought a proper, legal release... which the secret poster apparently didn't :P

Er...they really don't know their Japanese, in reality. V in Japanese is often turned into B when it's translated into English.

Just talk to anyone who is Japanese fluent and is trying to learn English -- the words that start with V and B are difficult to learn just because of that quirk.

So them complaining? They're just ignorant, sorry. :D

that's what i was thinking

due to me being an OP-tard and the conflicting Vivi/Bibi and biblicard/vivrecard translations

as i saw it they might as well have complained about L/R or TH/S differences

also, to me funi using something doesn't make it "official" unless it's the original author's will

zolo ftw

I might be horrible, but I don't always go by what the author says simply because their grasp of English is often lacking. For example, in Ayano Yamane's book Crimson Spell, the author specified that she wished the character's name to be translated "Bald." So in the first printing of the book, he was Bald. Then she found out what it meant in English and quickly changed her tune, so in the second printing, his name was Vald. Basically, I go with whatever sounds less stupid in English.

I agree. Often one can even spot what the author was aiming for, and change the name accordingly.

That reminds me of the creator of Evangelion insisting that each of the pilots by themselves would be "children" and not "child". Not understanding the difference between the plural and singular.

I don't always go by what the author says simply because their grasp of English is often lacking.
I know! That's how Michael in Howl's Moving Castle turned into Markl in the movie. (That bugs me so much more than the fact that he's supposed to be 15, not 8.)

No, in this case the OP is right. The katakana in the secret is only used for the "v" sound. The "b" and "v" confusion only arise when one uses another set of katakana.

Yes and no. The official nihonshiki (as you can see here (http://xembho.s59.xrea.com/siryoo/cabinet_order.html)) doesn't give a "valid" romanization method for the 'wackier' katakana - modified Hepburn gives the romanization as "va" - and only that. This paper (http://www.geocities.jp/masa_nip/Bunko/Kakikata/tatuoka.html) (which is fairly good, imho, if hosted on Geocities) gives it as ba.

Basically, there is no "official" version. ヴァ exists to transliterate v-sounds (violin, video etc.) into Japanese and should, imho, be translated back as such - if the author had meant to have a ba-sound in the word, she wouldn't have used バ, not ヴァ. Ergo, Ishval, not Ishbal.

And whether Japanese people pronounce it va or ba is slightly irrelevant in this case. As I experienced it, most younger people are perfectly capable of pronouncing v-sounds - because they're used to and grew up with them. Older Japanese (approx. 50+ in my personal experience) can't pronounce them at all or not that well and hence switch to w or b (whereas w is a lot closer imho). ヴァ IS a recent thing, and as long as there's no consensus, I'd personally go with modified Hepburn

But honestly? I'd stick to the Funimation version the poster above mentioned if in English discourse. "True" (hah!) fans may not like it, but it IS the official version. And quite honestly, when I read "イシュヴァール", it invokes "Ishtar" in my mind, with only half a sound difference. Typical case of the author remembering a nifty word and modifying it to fit his/her own purposes. Or just making up shit, period. Hirano Kouta anyone?

Actually, it's the other way around. V in English is turned into a B when it's translated into Japanese. When a katakana word is written with a B, it's ambiguous whether it can be a V or a B, but if it's written with the symbol that was deliberately created to represent the V sound, it's a V, period.

Also, you know, there's the fact that "イシュヴァール" was derived from a Hindu word which actually is spelled with a V.

Which word?

"Ishvara" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishvara)

Thanks!

(Next time, insert that in the secret so we can avoid all wannabe Japanese scholars come out and kill each other. Although... it is sort of amusing.)

Only one question remains now: Ishval, or Ishvar?

(I thought of including it, but couldn't figure out a way to word it that would avoid wank. And alas, here I've gone and caused wank.)

I prefer Ishvar, but since the origin of the name isn't common knowledge I don't think it's a huge problem if people use Ishval.

(*giggle*)

It's probably a good thing you did not include the L/R thing as well, it would have doubled the wank! :D

If it was meant to be an "r" they wouldn't have used the katakana "ru". "Ru" is either "ru" or "l". I've never seen it used any other way. If it was meant to be a hard "r", I would think "ra" would be more appropriate (I know I've seen it used that way before).

Edit: Oh, never mind. I see what you mean now. The author could have used the wrong katakana for what they meant.

Edited 2008-03-28 01:01 (UTC)

I've never seen it used any other way.

OMG then today is a premiere!

Dakar (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakar), capital of Senegal: ダカール (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%80%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB).

Tone down the sarcasm. Geez.

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