fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3462 ]

[ SECRET POST #3462 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3462 ⌋

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https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

There is this petition going around on social media, which calls for a second referendum based on the small margins by which the decision was made.

What do you guys think? Is that a good idea? Does it even have a chance of working?

Not a Brit, but it seems hard to find a legitimate justification for another vote. What would make one referendum more legitimate than the other? It's farce.

I think the correct thing to do from every point of view would be to call an early general election as soon as possible, fought primarily on the platform of EU departure and Brexit negotiations. It's the best move from a constitutional point of view (you have to have a dissolution of Parliament after such a significant constitutional change to my mind), it ensures the public has a voice in the details of Brexit and whatever government is negotiating the deal has a real mandate to govern, and it's the most legitimate way I can figure to revise the referendum decision.

Of course it's hard to see how that would be possible, when both major parties appear to be disintegrating.

The simple justification is that the "winning" side told a pile of lies, have now admitted they told a pile of lies to win, made promises they had no intention of keeping, and have admitted that too, that they only had the vote for their own personal gain and only because they thought they would lose, and now we are all screwed. Also, a lot of people were not able to vote, through weather, french strikes, glastonbury, etc, and many who did vote have now come forward and said they didn't think it would actually happen and were only doing it to send a message to shock the government.

There is also the constitutional technicality that The Westminster Parliament no longer had the power to decide whether to unilaterally withdraw from the European Union in the first place as need for agreement from the devolved parliaments first was written into the devolution bills. Er...oops. I'd say there was plenty of grounds for not just a second referendum, but for running it again in the knowledge that all constituent nations of the UK have to agree; that it has to have a majority in all of them. They don't have that right now.

I'm a European, I didn't want the Brexit, and I'm appalled at the xenophobia and violence on display today, but...sorry, no. People don't get a do-over because politicians lied. Politicians lie all the time, and there's a responsibility on the side of the voter to inform themselves about the consequences of their vote. Personally, I think all these politicians should be fucking ashamed of themselves for exploiting people like this, but...a lot of people were uncritically eating that shit up, and this is the result. And "I didn't think that side would win so I gave them my vote" is not an excuse at all, either. I get being disillusioned and fed up with politics but...come on now. All my sympathies go out to the people who voted Remain and feel screwed over by a small majority now, but all this whinging after the fact by people who voted Leave is infuriating, to be honest.

You're right in that there still might be some loophole or some way around Brexit yet, we won't know before the British government gets its shit together. But not by doing it over with flimsy excuses like this.

>>>And "I didn't think that side would win so I gave them my vote" is not an excuse at all, either.

Seriously, this. What utter bullshit. If a person is dumb enough to vote for something they're actually against, I got no sympathy.

The simple justification is that the "winning" side told a pile of lies, have now admitted they told a pile of lies to win

Citation needed.

I hope the UK remains the UK and stays in the EU somehow, but politicians lied=politicians were politicians. If every democracy threw out every vote on that basis, nothing would be decided, ever. Politicians lie so people will vote for them. Everyone, especially protest voters who thought they were protesting government inaction or corruption, should know that.

If things get too bad, the Queen has a right as monarch to dissolve the whole of parliament and call for an election of a whole new one.

No she doesn't. That was what Charles the 1st lost his head over. What she can do is refuse to give royal assent to any parliamentary bill arising from this debacle or she can sack the Prime Minister and appoint another one over the heads of Parliament. Of course there is little point to the latter, and either of the two options would trigger a fresh constitutional conflict that would likely see the UK finally become a republic. She's not going to do anything.

As much as I hate the outcome, the referendum was democratic. Having it redone would undermine democracy.
Britons made a decision, good or bad, now let them deal with it. No "second chances" or we'll never get anything done.

I am pretty torn on this actually. On the one hand I think that Britain leaving the EU would have really awful consequences for everyone and I really do not want it to happen. Also it seems, at least from my perspective, that a lot of the voters are unhappy with the outcome, because they voted on the basis of bad information (like the NHS claim for example) or were protest voters that didn't expect to matter.

But on the other hand, there is no guarantee a second referendum would have a clearer outcome. On top of that, I feel like it would send a disastrous message, because it would undermine the democratic process and also reinforce the idea that the votes of the people do not matter.

the british people made the wrong choice. I think the politicians should ignore the outcome and do what is best.

Nothing should happen. 4chan's running a script on it (or something, I don't really know about bots) so it's definitely not going to be seen as legit anymore.

Even if I'm a Remain supporter, I feel very uncomfortable about this petition. It undermines democracy. People are sending this around like it guarantees a Remain outcome, but it won't. There's no age limit or any other restriction to sign this (you literally only need an email and postcode) and social media is often populated by young people anyway, so it's already heavily skewed and not a reflection of what another referendum outcome will be. We haven't addressed the Leave's side's wishes at all if we do this. And if Leave wins again? What are we gonna do? Ask for a third petition? And even then - will the young people even come out to vote? Remain had such a low turnout compared to Leave. And even then, what if Remain win? The EU aren't gonna be all open arms and welcoming after this shitshow.

I actually think this really hurts our cause too, because it makes us look like sore losers. It was also started by a Leave supporter in the first place, a month before the referendum - I just wish it had gained traction beforehand when it mattered and Cameron had added this majority clause in the first place. As someone who's studied politics before (I'm a tad rusty though), everything about this situation is so frustrating because there is so much arrogance on both sides. This referendum was much too complex for direct democracy in the first place. Neither side were gonna be winners in a sense anyway, with a bureaucratic EU on one side and economic chaos on the other - Remain was just the less shitty side. The discourse surrounding this whole debacle is so toxic. What we really need are both sides coming together to discuss how to get out this shithole but no, both parties are deciding to cannibalise themselves and nothing is being done. All because Cameron wanted to appease his own party and threw this sensitive and much too complex issue into an apathetic electorate he was sorely out of touch with.

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[ SECRET POST #3462 ]

Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum

Re: Brexit - Petition for a Second Referendum