[ SECRET POST #3474 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3474 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Hide and Seek by Imogen Heap]



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02. http://i.imgur.com/8Lfgcp8.jpg
[A Game of Thrones, Tyene Sand; link because OP warned for nudity]


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03.
[Independence Day]


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04.
[Queen at Arms]


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05. [repeat]


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06. [WARNING for underage/shota]

[Boku no Pico]


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07. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]



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08. [WARNING for incest]
[WARNING for rape]



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09. [WARNING for gore, torture]
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #496.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2- too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. http://i.imgur.com/h2WNqpg.png
[Queen at Arms]

Transcript by OP

[fscom]

I loved the game, but think the way it tackled gender was pretty... grating.

To give some context, since the game is a bit niche, you play as a dfab person who, for plot reasons, was raised as a boy by his adoptive father. He joins the army, doing his best to conceal his birth designation but has no trouble thinking of himself as a woman. Eventualy, romance happens, and one of the characters joins him in his tent for what turns out to be an intimate moment. One thing leds to another, and he discovers the MC’s secret. After a short explanation, he apologises, saying he’s attracted to men only, at which point the MC ponders whether he considers himself a man or not. This, however, has no bearing on how (s)he will present (her)himself as (s)he will continue to be the same boy soldier (s)he was. If you confirm you’re not a man, this shuts down that particular character’s route, but if you go the trans boy route, the guy is more than happy to jump your bones.

But... What’s the point? It doesn’t even make sense - the MC looks and behaves the same either way, and that character was obviously attracted to him before he knew the MC’s birth assignment. So what’s the cause for such a stark difference? Why does the way the MC thinks of (her)himself internally make the difference between ‘oh yes lets have sex’ and ‘ew gross’?

[(Anonymous)]

Because if you ID as gay and someone is telling other people they're your female partner who is your wife or girlfriend, that's awkward. Relationships are not only about sex.

[(Anonymous)]

And even if they're not telling other people about it, you know *they* think of themselves as "your girlfriend" and "a girl" and that's really weird. He might still have been attracted to her - as in, the version of the character who identifies as female - but that doesn't mean he as a gay man would want to pursue a relationship.

[blitzwing]

Isn't that character presenting as a male though...? So the "other people will question my homosexuality if I date her" shouldn't be a factor.

[(Anonymous)]

If he doesn't want to date a girl, and she identifies as a girl, that's his choice? He might find her physically attractive but no longer attractive as a romantic prospect because "identifying as a girl" is a dealbreaker. I don't really get why that's hard to understand.

I say this as a bi/pan person myself.

[blitzwing]

See my answer below. *Why* is it a dealbreaker? That's what I (and probably OP) are curious about.

[blitzwing]

I've wondered about this myself. It's kinda hard to fathom when you're bi or pan. Monosexuality is a mysterious thing.

Unrelated but I can't believe they want $25 for a RenPy game with such mediocre art.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh I said it above but not pursuing a relationship =/= sudden lack of attraction. Attraction isn't a choice but deciding to enter a relationship, is.

If this were a lesbian who were attracted to a feminine man who kept insisting he identified as a man, she'd have the choice not to date him because she's a lesbian, too. She might still find him attractive, but that's not the relationship she wants.

[blitzwing]

I don't think anyone's arguing they don't have a choice. We're asking, "Why does it change your decision?"

[(Anonymous)]

Because someone who isn't into girls might be uncomfortable in a relationship with someone he knows identifies as a girl. It has nothing to do with the outside, it has to do with the mental gender and *knowing* that the other person identifies a different way than what you're attracted to them for. Some people don't want to deal with that.

[(Anonymous)]

DA. I'll reply as was in that situation. Am gay, solely attracted to men and my identity is important as hell to me. Sure, attraction is attraction - be it romantic or sexual but acting on it is a different thing. My boyfriend is trans and discounting relationship, would do same as the dude in game. Dunno how to pose it in none-monosexual terms... Maybe as a choice you make when an important concept about someone is different?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm bi/pan, but I get this. If I see someone as male and am attracted to them as a male and they say they're female, it's probably not going to work regardless of their physical gender. It wouldn't be that I'm not attracted to female people, it would be that I wouldn't be able to pursue a relationship knowing I'm attracted to them as an identity they don't hold, even if I will treat them with respect as the gender they tell me they are. They probably wouldn't want that either and that's understandable from both sides.

[(Anonymous)]

I would be too anxious about invalidating someone's identity and making them feel bad. Like, telling someone "okay its nice that you're a girl but I'm gonna pretend you're a dude and think of you as a dude" sounds like it would be a real headfuck for the person identifying as a girl.

[(Anonymous)]

Hmmm... Coming at it from the other direction: let's say I'm a straight woman and I meet a person who appears to be a man whom I find attractive. This person says "Actually, I identify as a woman, but I'm not planning on ever transitioning or presenting as a woman." I'd probably feel a little weird about dating her even though the male body and presentation I was attracted to isn't changing and her personality is still what it was when I met her. Part of it might be worry that maybe she'll change her mind and transition or start presenting as a woman, part of it might be concern over what this might mean for our sex life, part of it might be tripping over pronouns or dealing with other people's confusion, but part of it is also just the fact that there is a part of this person's identity that does not attract me.

[(Anonymous)]

If you're not getting it, it isn't because you're bi or pan. I'm bi, and I understand the concept of gendered attraction just fine.

[(Anonymous)]

Another bi person agreeing with this.

[beverlykatz]

Agreed.

[(Anonymous)]

As a trans woman who once dated (with full disclosure) a heterosexual cis woman... yeah mental gender can become a huge obstical and some people might not find it worth the headache.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's a bit silly having him nope out with "sorry I'm only into men" when he sees the physical situation but suddenly has no trouble with sex if the other character says "oh but mentally I'm totally a guy".

If the physical thing was a problem in the first place, that wouldn't suddenly change.

[(Anonymous)]

It might be something that makes him reconsider though. I'm not familiar with the given story, but I can imagine someone seeing the physical situation and thinking "oh, they're a woman, I'm not into women." But the character saying they're male combined with their presentation that the guy was attracted to initially could mentally move them away from the "woman" category again. I've definitely experienced similar things. People often underestimate this mental categorization stuff when it comes to attraction.

[(Anonymous)]

I just may have seen a few too many "well-meaning" idiots trying to harass especially gay and lesbian people into saying they're attracted to trans bodies when they're not otherwise they're transphobic.

Because the way people think does matter

[(Anonymous)]

You can be attracted to the physical features of someone and turned off by something about the way they think. Though really, I would think that some of the character's private behaviors should be a little different based on their gender mindset.

[(Anonymous)]

there's a difference between "this person is a man who happens to look different downstairs" and "this person is a woman who dresses as a man," if you're attracted exclusively to men the first is an issue you can either decide you're up for or not, the second calls into question your entire gay identity and vastly changes the way you think of your attraction.

it also sounds as if the MC is continuing to pretend to be male because of the circumstances of being in the army and not because of innate personality traits, certainly once they get out things might change and they might adapt a more "womanly" appearance and the other character is not up for that?