fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3475 ]

[ SECRET POST #3475 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3475 ⌋

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Notes:

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Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

See I know you're trolling, but I guess you can call this a win because I'm going to bite:

The western invasion of third world countries is what leads to the horrible shit, not them leaving.

white men invade, abuse the women and teach the PoC that they can get away with the abuses. I'm not saying the were great before whites invaded, they were probably pretty monstrous in their own ways, but those ways dies out leaving the horrible shit that white men brought with them.

NAYRT

I can't tell if YOU'RE trolling or not...

DA My thoughts exactly. After the events of the last few weeks, why can't we just have one night without these wankers making everything miserable.

Like you actually find somthing in my comment trollish, or you don't like my tone and that translates to "troll"? If the former, could you let me know what you find unreasonable? if the latter, you might have to acknowledge that not everything you find uncomfortable is a troll. Too many people dismiss people as a troll because it's easier.

Because saying that the west made things worse for women is patently ridiculous. The cultures where women were anything but property were very, very few. A handful, in a world of thousands of cultures. Not saying that it made anything better or was in anyway justifiable, but you cannot specifically say that it made it worse for women.

The models of oppression facing women in india today are carbon fucking copies of the issues facing women in the first world. Much worse in scale, but the same systems.

Women were always treated badly across every culture on the planet, yes, but the west had specifically and identifiably put it's stamp on india in the way they treat women. India is a reflection of the west mistreatment of women. The west is directly responsible for how indian woman are treated today. I didn't say worse, but I did say, and do continue to say that what india woman are suffering today is a direct result of the west's invasion.

Can I ask what the west is supposed to do about that now? I mean, other than self-flagellate.

Well Many things really, but in this case all I need the west to do is not say that it's the west leaving india that made it so horrible for women.

I mean, I wasn't going after the west, it was some other dickhead that decided to say shit about how india needs to west to not be shitty to women.

OK. It sounded to me like you were going after the west.

Like I mean, widow-burning definitely did not come from the West

Lots of terrible things other cultures do didn't come from the West. And imperialism does not completely stamp out previous cultures. Why would it?

India was not/is not (in my opinion of what third world means) a third world country. The west didn't 'invade' it. Any issues India has with women/caste systems etc, were there before any sort of western influence.

I don't find what you wrote uncomfortable. Amusing maybe, because it seems so painfully hyperbolic so I can tell if you believe what you wrote or are just shit disturbing.

How can a culture take over another culture then when they're done with it just walk away and say "It was like that when I found it"??

Every issue in india today is a direct result of the occupation by the west. How can it not be? It was almost destroyed. It's like someone just broke into your house, ruined all the furnature, raped your wife and shit on the floor, and then turned around and said "But your house was a dump before I got here, so you can't blame me for this mess."

Ok, you can argue tht India would have evolved differently without Western invasion.

You can even state that women - maybe - might have been better off in this evolution (we'll never know, but it was a possibility).

However, the people in this thread saying India had a problem with caste systems and misogyny waaay before the West ever set foot there are not wrong. And many attitudes are still a direct result of that, more so than of western influence.

Ok but there is a middle ground between "the West har zero cultural influence on India" and "the West completely wiped out and netated existing Indian culture". A very broad middle ground. I'd say what actually happened falls somewhere within it.

This just in the British invented the caste system

I genuinely have no idea whether you're being sarcastic, but isn't that an actual argument that people make?

The British Raj made it worse by tying it to administration (and then tried to fix this in the 1920s by reserving certain posts for members of lower castes) but they didn't invent it. The Brits didn't create the dalits and segregate them from society, for example.

Frankly: blaming every single bad thing on Europeans is a form of white supremacy. Making them the Big Bad still makes them big. There are many, many, many horrible things the Brits did to India. We don't have to pretend they created (rather than exacerbated) this other thing to make them look shitty.

The caste system is not a problem for women in india. The caste system is just a part of their existing culture, and yes has more rigid classist elements to it than most western countries, but it is a class based social inequality, not a gender based inequality.

Okay, please read this very carefully.

Western countries are not the only countries with fucked up gender inequality.

The Brits did not invent the practice of widow burning, for example. If anything trying to stop it is one of the very very few good things they attempted to do.

Likewise, western powers did not invent shit like footbinding in China.

To act like westerners invented every bad thing outside the west is fucking white supremacy.

This is like when everyone acts like indigenous societies of America were totally peaceful all-accepting hippie cultures where absolutely nothing bad happened ever. No. That's racist. It is actually racist to deny the basic humanity and self determination of a group of people because they aren't The Evil One.

The Brits generally made things worse! But they did not invent every bad thing in every society they affected.

Edited 2016-07-10 19:37 (UTC)

You must be trolling.

Might be true in cases like really basic tribal societies, but India had a full and extensively sophisticated native culture that was only slightly less technologically developed than the invading Brits, French and Dutch. Their savage ways were not the product of being undeveloped and needing to be shown how to be dicks by whitey.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3475 ]

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