fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3479 ]

[ SECRET POST #3479 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3479 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

[Lifetime's UnReal]

__________________________________________________

03.

[X-Men movies. Charles/Erik]

__________________________________________________

04.

[Andrew Zimmern vs. Anthony Bourdain]

__________________________________________________

05.

[Secretary]

__________________________________________________

06.

[Stardew Valley]

__________________________________________________

07.

[Notre Dame de Paris (French Musical)]

__________________________________________________

08.

[Erma]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #497.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So this has been bouncing around the Internet for a little while and I actually thought it was really interesting and insightful and powerful:

https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42#.l6gk7j3c6

Thoughts?

I don't know. It's kinda TLDR so I didn't finish it. seems like it's just her experience.

What are your thoughts? Can you point me to key bits you think are of note?

I think the part that's most interesting to me is her comments about masculinity and the way that we (IE broadly feminist social justice concerned majority female Internet communities) approach masculinity.

I would recommend reading the whole piece at some point when you have the time though! I think it's really strong and personal, although it does start off very personal.

I read this--I think it's an interesting read, and the criticism of cis women who jump to conclusions and make everything about attacking masculinity is right on point, frankly. While I'm an angry lesbian myself who often takes joy in that kind of thing, it's important to know when that's an acceptable form of humor, when it's a fair criticism of real social problems, and when it's just jumping on a discourse bandwagon, and I think Jen Coates has provided some really thoughtful insight into where those distinctions might lie. She's also given a very personal and really compelling picture "from the inside" of one of the many forms that transness can take, and I appreciate that.

I did worry, as I read the article, that some elements might be taken out of context/taken as universal rather than personal. Even the headline to me seemed a bit out of line with the spirit of the piece, which makes me worry that people will read the headline, assume they understand what the essay says, and incorporate that into their gender politics.

I think that's a really good and thoughtful response, thank you. And I think there's always the possibility of something being misunderstood, and Coates does as much as anyone can to guard against it.

I agree; I'm really glad I kept reading to the end, because all the concerns I had at the beginning when I wasn't quite sure where all this was going got addressed by the end.

I've had some of the same bullshit thrown at me on Fandom Secrets, so I'm inclined to defend her. On the other hand, I have the feeling this will become a political football for people who hate feminism, like when liberal Muslims who hate conservative Muslims get trotted out by people who hate Islam.

I think it helps that the piece goes out of its way to be explicitly pro intersectional feminism.

http://raphi-anoesies.tumblr.com/post/147334234581/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not

Wow. That is like–no, that is being in a cult. A cult of the feminine?

What I see here is that some women in the name of feminism have made for themselves a cult of contempt for men. The masculine in the abstract is demonised, and so is the male in the particular. Men are called oppressor, and the language of exclusion and contempt–reminiscent of racism and nationalism–is deployed to split a society in half along sex lines. And among so many “feminists” the male is even considered subhuman.

Maybe all this had value as a joke, once? But it’s not a joke. Taken uncritically and without irony, this is all incredibly counterproductive to the project of a more humane society.

I’ve been guilty at times of pretending women are better than men. But I know that’s nonsense, because I know both women and men too well.

I started calling myself a feminist again a few years ago; I had only stopped a few years before that, I suppose. I don’t care if you use the word or not, really; it means different things to different people, some good, some bad. What’s described above, while its portrayal may be distorted a little by the writer’s perception, sounds to be very definitely a bad version.

I think we’ve hit the point when we have to correct away from “feminism.” “Women’s Liberation” was a relevant idea once, even if it had some flaws in its conceptualisation. But now “feminism” is a name that needs to be unpacked, so we can tell the good (the wish to treat women as full persons) from the bad (the tendency to treat men with abuse). Maybe we’ll have to let it go in favour of “egalitarianism,” and treat all this a joke that’s gone on too long. The very name “feminism” invites the sort of vile sexism described.

What was it Joss Whedon said? “I’m not a genderist,” something like that. Well, maybe I’ve been a genderist, maybe I still am a little bit. I don’t want to be such anymore.

I hope that boys who’ve learned to hate their own masculinity can find a way to be masculine without the toxicity, and then fully themselves; just as I hope girls who’ve learned to hate their own femaleness can find a way to make peace of a kind with being a woman. Here’s to the freedom to be butch women and girlish men–and also, here’s to the freedom to be virile men and feminine women. Here’s to a people that isn’t divided against itself over gender.

This is going down as another example of an MtF MRA.

I just don't get it?

lol nah

"Without reservation, I embrace the theory of intersectional feminism. I need it — we all do."

Try harder, do better.

Riiiight. And Christina Hoff Sommers is also totally a feminist. Not an MRA abusing the label.

What specific things that are said do you think conflict with feminism as you understand it and want it to be

In the same way that, for Christine Hoff Somers, you can point to specific disagreements that you have

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3479 ]

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

I've already reblogged it and responded to it.

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread

Re: Gender Thread