fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #454 ]

⌈ Secret Post #454 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 75 secrets from Secret Submission Post #065.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

03. I live in a very conservative, Evangelical area where I sometimes feel that certain individuals are calling me various nasty things in their heads on account of my Jewishness, and I've been called a "Christ Killer" more than once. So...I guess I can understand where you're coming from.

18. That's fine. I don't sympathize, but you're entitled to like the Height Rule if you want to.

47. I can agree that it is well written and intelligent, but I have seen anime that are superior in both spheres. It's definitely up there, though.

49. I can totally empathize. I used to be a slash-phobic HP fanbrat with a Ginny/Draco OTP. Needless to say, I was snapped out of it much the same way you were.

61. I humbly thank you for posting this.

62. Agreed. You know who else is tragic? Almost every modern dictator. And yeah, I don't like them very much. (And by 'don't like', I actually mean 'despise with every fiber of my being'.)

69. I've said it many, many times before, but I'm going to say it again anyway: CANON CHARACTERS CANNOT BE MARY SUES. A Mary Sue is, by definition, a fan-made character. Or, at the very least, a blatant self-insertion of some kind. Almost every main protagonist in every work fantasy/sci-fi will score high on those tests. It doesn't mean diddly.

I'm done now.

I challenge you to read "Rhapsody" by Elisabeth Hayden before you say that again. XD

No really, when a character distorts the rules of their own universe and make other characters act completely irrational in ways they never do otherwise, I think they're at least a little Sue-ish.

I still wouldn't call them a Mary Sue. In that case, I would just call it bad writing. Though I suppose that (and perhaps most of the novels written by Terry Goodkind) are geniune examples of canon characters behaving in Sueish ways.

It just bothers me how easily the term canon!Sue is tossed around. It begins to apply to any character who has a tragic past or becomes more powerful than anybody else (or than Fan X wants them to be). And, more often than not, the Fan in question will ignore equally 'Sueish' qualities in characters that they like.

It just seems like it's...missing the point of fiction.

I totally agree with your second point; most of the time characters who are called canon-Sues really aren't.

I do think they can be found in original fiction though. Sometimes characters start out well enough, and then develop in a completely unbelievable way, but I tend to simply call that developing Sue-ish traits (case in point, Anita Blake).

I don't think this is applicable when a character is special in certain ways - many stories depend on it - but rather when they influence people around them in spectacularly strange ways and everybody acts like it's normal and totally expected.

Like with regular Sues, it doesn't really matter how they act or what they do, but how everybody and everything else react to it.

I see where you're coming from, and you certainly have a good point. That's the main reason why I don't even bother with those Sue-tests. What difference will it ultimately make? In the end, it comes down to how well you integrate a character into a story, not superficial BS like what colour their eyes are. You can have a character with violet eyes and glossy, tri-coloured hair named Serendipity for all I care, but as long as her mere presence doesn't make the protagonists (or antagonists) go all googly-eyed and OOC, and she has relatable flaws, then she isn't a Mary Sue.

Yes, exactly. Since anime protagonists (and antagonists too, really) tend to have rather spectacular looks, I know not to focus on that point. In fact, Yuugi (of Yu-Gi-Oh!) does have violet eyes and hair that at least appears to have three colours! He manages not to be Sue-ish anyway, and that's quite a feat when considering that he's also harbouring a 3000 year old spirit of a Pharaoh in his body...

On a somewhat related note: I love Yuugi. I never even noticed how stereotypically Sueish his appearance is until you pointed it out. If he were a woman, he would have legions of fans crying 'Sue.

Yuugi is amazing and adorable, and I love him. ♥

If he were a woman, he would have legions of fans crying 'Sue.

I don't know about that, actually; sure if he'd been a female side character with that appearance, maybe? I still doubt he'd been given any character development or trials to go through if he'd been female, though. It's usually the fate of the female characters in adventure manga. *is slightly bitter*

[ SECRET POST #454 ]

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