fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #455 ]

⌈ Secret Post #455 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 0 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #065.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ], [ 1 - wtf ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

8) A bit premature to be mourning the death of a show that's been reupped for a new season. Personally I hope it hasn't reached it's peak yet.

34) There's nothing like a conversation about sexism, racism or any number of other automatic wank tickets to utterly suck any trace of fun out of fandom. Yeah there's a whole lot of shitty things about society, and yes they get reflected unconsciously in canon, but IMO these conversations about these flaws never actually amount to anything other than an passive aggressive attempt to make people feel guilty about liking a show. I mean, honestly, what can anyone say. "Omg, there's some sexism in my show! -- therefore... uh... snickerdoodle anyone?" We aren't going to start a letter writing campaign over a show we enjoy as is.

I think people who want to start these conversations should go watch some anime and learn to put it in perspective.

46) I don't know, Sam cuddling, kissing, and repeatedly saying he loves Frodo isn't the hardest subtext to work with.

Edited 2008-04-05 05:15 (UTC)

And those of us who like the show, but would like it better if it was less sexist/racist/whatnot? Or those of us who feel alienated because we enjoy the show but the prejudice bothers us? We're not allowed to talk about how it hurts.

I'm sorry that your privilege blinds you from understanding why people try to talk out things that bother them.

ooooh, when in a losing argument, play the privilege card.

You can't have it both ways. Either you accept that people aren't going to enjoy a discussion of how much their show sucks. Or you complain that you aren't allowed to discuss it. You don't have the right to both hold up a show to an arbitrary ideal and find it lacking and also expect everyone to agree with you.

I'm sorry that your martyrdom casts a pall on the things you enjoy.

Erh? I accept that some people aren't going to enjoy the conversation. That doesn't mean the conversation shouldn't happen, though. If a show is good, but has problems in an area (especially one that has the potential to hurt people in very intense ways), why shouldn't I talk about it, whether or not it "sucks the fun out of fandom"?

My "arbitrary ideal" is that they have an even-handed treatment of characters of all colors, creeds, sexualities, and genders. Generally shows don't. I just think people ought to acknowledge that, hey, show creators have the same prejudices as the rest of us, and that's why sometimes my favorite show makes me feel like it's saying all women are victims, even when otherwise it's a well-written and acted show.

You don't have to agree, I suppose. I know other people who are willfully oblivious too.

Dude, is it even possible for you to discuss something with someone without heaping scorn on them? That may be a large part of why people dismiss the things you say.

Edited 2008-04-06 00:21 (UTC)

I can agree with you, but at the same time, I often see people vehemently insisting that something is not there which is patently there, simply because they don't want to have to deal with it, mentally. They like it, ergo it's not sexist, because surely only bad things can be racist/sexist etc, and things I like aren't bad!

No, they don't have to boycott the show or start a letter writing campaign, but awareness is considered important for a reason. It's important for people to be able to recognize what's there, even in things they have positive feelings for. If you can't acknowledge racism/sexism whatever in your entertainment, what will you do when it turns up in the attitudes of your friends? Your family? Yourself?

Yeah, well that's where I draw the RL/fantasy line. I enjoy tons of things in fantasy that really bother me in reality. We deal with the stuff in reality because we need to, and we can. It's not okay to be sexist in the work place.

It's fine to have a sexist fantasy. There I said it. It's fine. If it goes too far it will turn off enough of it's audience that it will become unpopular and fall into obscurity. But there really doesn't need to be self-appointed morality police. The problem is that when we start cracking way down on perceived injustices in fantasy there's often a chilling effect, and we have writers overcompensating trying to be PC, and in the end we get something that feels like it's pandering.

Now I don't mind the occasional nod that a sexual or racial stereotype is being used, but the problem is that conversations like these usually aren't done as a nod, they are done as as a OMG SOMETHING MUST BE DONE ABOUT THIS HOW DARE THEY. And honestly? I can fully see people refusing to see it just because they don't want to taint the show they are watching and enjoying with guilt.

Well, I can see that. Things like that really can spoil your enjoyment of a show, and it's hard to be objective and steady-headed about things you have a great affection towards. (By objective in this case I mean admitting that while it has some flaws, that's not something you need to flip out over.)

[ SECRET POST #455 ]

8, 34, 46

34 OP

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Re: 8, 34, 46

Re: 8, 34, 46

Re: 8, 34, 46