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[ SECRET POST #3498 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3498 ⌋

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Discuss away! We read Para Handy by Neil Munro for July. I'll put my thoughts in a reply. Please share your thoughts, ask questions, etc. :)

So I have mixed feelings about this book.

First of all, I didn't read all the short stories. I know, I know. It took me a long time to get the book (I ordered it online, and it took a really long time to ship) and I've had a complicated past few months. It was also longer and a bit sloggier than the books we've read for the last few months, which I was able to easily finish in a week each. I DO intend to read all of it, but probably slowly - one or two short stories at a time. That said, please don't worry about spoiling me for the later stories! I don't mind.

Short stories can be cool, but it's difficult for me to stay motivated to read a whole bunch of them since there's not much overarching plot. (There's a bit of a plot kind of like a serial cartoon or newspaper comic but most every story stands on its own without requiring any of the others to read and understand it except the ones that intro the main characters.)

The first few stories did not appeal to me. The writing isn't bad but it's heavy and sloggy to me. I recognize that is it a product of its time. I can get through that, but the really annoying part, at least at first, was Para Handy's accent. (I'm used to Para's accent now and Sunny Jim's accent is worse!) I don't mind accents in concept, but writing them out phoenetically can make them hard to understand and makes it take longer to read and takes away focus from the story, to me.

I also disliked the apparent attitude towards women in the first dozen or two stories. Also probably a product of its time, yes. Still didn't like it. The only women featured are romantic interests of the main characters or one-shot characters who are defined specifically as some other man's wife or daughter. Dougie's wife was particularly portrayed to be an annoying nag, which seems to be an accepted view of women in the context of the story. Even Para's wife is portrayed as basically mentally unstable (because she's a vegetarian) the first appearance she makes post-marriage.

All that aside, I did start to enjoy the stories as I kept reading them. They grew on me, and the quirks of the crew members of the Vital Spark grew on me and made me like the characters individually quite a bit - even cranky Macphail. Sailor stories aren't generally my area of interest, but there were nonetheless a few I really liked - the one where the whale washed up on the island was pretty entertaining, and the one with the farm sale.

I don't know much about Scotland but it would be very interesting to compare the late-Industrial-Age Scotland portrayed in the stories to the Scotland of today if there are people who are familiar with it! Also I've heard that Scotland is very pretty and it's fun to imagine the Vital Spark sailing along the scenic coast. (I feel like it would be cold a lot though.)

For those who have read or plan to read all the stories if you haven't yet, I'd love to discuss them later on as I read them all!

(PS: the August book is available in my library - first book of the year I can get that way lol - so I will have no problem getting it early and it shouldn't be an issue to read it all)

(PPS: I'm not sure I read the edition the reccer wanted us to read. I attempted to order that edition, but the book I got had a different cover than the one I thought I ordered. I hope it's the same one.)

There was a tv series too, for the people who find it more accessible than books:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82PYVPXUohs

I am apparently worse at hearing thick Scottish accents of specific dialects than I am at reading them xD;

Edited 2016-08-02 01:26 (UTC)

One thing worth pointing out, it isn't phonetics it is written in. It is dialect, several dialects in fact. It is one of the key texts that anyone even thinking about writing in Scottish accents need to read if they want to get it authentic.

What is the specific difference? Writing the accent of another dialect out phoenetically is...still phoenetic.

phonetic accent is how someone thinks words sound, dialect is that these are the actual words and not just sounds. para handy uses dialect not accent

...gotcha. Thanks! I didn't know that. Thanks for the correction.

I didn't read all of the stories either. I think I'll probably continue with them, but like you I'm really not a short story person. Still, they're fun and funny.

Mixed feelings for me as well.

I didn't finish all the stories. I'm almost finished with the second volume (In Highland Harbours with Para Handy) and I intend to read the rest of them eventually, although not right now. I think I need a break from them for a while :)

I thought the whole time that this book was a really odd choice for a book club. Not just because they are short stories, but because there are so many samey short stories. And I did enjoy them. They are funny and endearing and pretty much the opposite of what I expected, which is always nice. But I'm frankly baffled to find something to actually discuss about it. I mean, this is pretty much the Scottish version of Three Men In A Boat. Which is also a very enjoyable book, but it rather lacks the depth and complexity to make it suitable for a book club discussion.

That's why I would have been really curious to see what the person who suggested it and all the people who voted for it we're hoping to get out of our discussion. But it looks like none of them bothered to show up for the actual event. I'd also like to add that I'm side-eyeing the person who suggested it pretty hard. :P Mainly because I'm a cheap shit and I'm certainly not going to buy one specific edition of a book where three quarters of its content are freely available in the public domain.

I'm not a fan of writing out dialect at all, because it's not actually meant to be written language and you always get it wrong to some degree, even if you are a speaker of it yourself and there's often lots of xenophobia/classism etc. attached to it. Although I have to say I thought Para Handy and the others were much easier to understand than the dialect of the working class in North And South for example, and it certainly worked well for the context of the story and the genre.

I also disliked the apparent attitude towards women in the first dozen or two stories. Also probably a product of its time, yes. Still didn't like it. The only women featured are romantic interests of the main characters or one-shot characters who are defined specifically as some other man's wife or daughter. Dougie's wife was particularly portrayed to be an annoying nag, which seems to be an accepted view of women in the context of the story. Even Para's wife is portrayed as basically mentally unstable (because she's a vegetarian) the first appearance she makes post-marriage.

Ha, look at that, I found something to discuss. The first part I totally agree with. It's a sausage fest, and even though I didn't expect any better, it's definitely a valid point. And the few women there are, are certainly not fully developed and complex individuals by any stretch of the imagination.

However, I would argue against the assumption that the portrayal of the female vs. the male characters was meant to ridicule the former and idolise the latter. I mean, this is pretty much straight-forward comedy. The huge disconnect between the way the characters - Para Handy himself especially - see themselves and how they really are/the reader sees them is a big part of the joke. Because we as readers know that those men are not the noble sailors they'd like to be, we know they're a bunch of lazy idiots with delusions of grandeur. Because most of the time the 'antagonists' of Para Handy and his crew are obviously in the much more reasonable position and it's pretty rare among the stories that Peter and the others actually get away with their antics unscathed. Hurricane Jack, for example, who seems to be Peter's personal hero is described in a deliberately over the top way as some kind of mythical seaman of the highest order who als seems to get taller and broader every time he's mentioned, when he is - to the reader at least - very obviously a petty, criminal douchecanoe. And that extends to the female characters as well.

I mean the story with the wife you mention portrays that very well, I think. They are flipping their shit over something so ridiculous and in such an exaggerated way, that the reader can't take it seriously and that's what makes it so funny.

Huh, I had more to say than I expected. Oops.

Are you the anon who said you'd comment next day due to timezone shenanigans? Well whether you are or not, thanks for the response!

I honestly kind of agree with you about the book club rec thing - like I had more trouble than usual coming up with some things to say. I feel like even if I'd read all the stories I still would have trouble in that regard because it's not like it would have affected an overall plot.

Your commentary on women is interesting too and I did not look at it the same way but I'm glad you brought that up. I'm kind of a literalist without meaning to be so I just take things at face value a lot. Even though some of the responses to things were funny and exaggerated, I didn't assume the response to Mery's vegetarianism was entirely exaggerated. I might be projecting a little bit because of the anti-vegetarian backlash I see a lot in our own culture though. Some aspects of it (macho manliness) might carry over, but even so 21st century US is still not the same as 1900-esque Scotland lol.

Hurricane Jack does seem to be a bit of a seedy douche, yeah. I haven't gotten to the series of stories that focus on him, but I've read a few where Para Handy talks about him. The one where he was first talked about was pretty funny, with the way the narrator kept saying "but tell me about the sheep" over and over and at the end "because he stole a sheep!" was still the only reason Hurricane Jack apparently got his name. xD

When is the next pole? I just bought a book and blatantly hoping I can strong arm everyone into reading it at the same time so we can talk about it.

I think it's fantasy maybe ya fantasy.

Probably going to start taking recs tomorrow! You can go ahead and tell me what it is now though so you don't forget if you want. (Feel free to plug it in future rec posts though)

(btw that goes for everyone - feel free to plug your recs!)

Graceling by Kristen Cashore!
"Kristin Cashore's bestselling, award-winning fantasy Graceling tells the story of the vulnerable-yet-strong Katsa, a smart, beautiful teenager who lives in a world where selected people are given a Grace, a special talent that can be anything from dancing to swimming. Katsa's is killing. As the king's niece, she is forced to use her extreme skills as his thug. Along the way, Katsa must learn to decipher the true nature of her Grace... and how to put it to good use. A thrilling, action-packed fantasy adventure (and steamy romance!) that will resonate deeply with adolescents trying to find their way in the world"

I haven't started yet. But a random lady in the store said "oh that's good!" When I picked it up and answered some questions such as
- there's not actually much romance
- the lady character is not for supporting male character
- male character is not an annoying limp noodle
- the 2nd book is average but the third book is meant to be great
- supposedly a little cheesey but enjoyable to read

Thank you random lady in store

where selected people are given a Grace, a special talent that can be anything from dancing to swimming. Katsa's is killing.

That got edgy fast xD

(I don't mean that to be disparaging. It does sound like an enjoyable book! I like edgy YA sometimes especially if there isn't terrible romance, and if there's no romance there can't be terrible romance, can there? :D)

The lady in store said there was some overdone romance but also she spends a lot of time not interested in romance which is good for me!

Yes it is super edgy YA XD

LOL

That sounds like a horribly clichéd mess to me. Not trying to be mean though >.< (I say while pretty obviously being mean...). But that's good actually, because I'm trying to be less snobbish about books and therefore broaden my horizon. And plenty of awesome books have a terrible synopsis. And at least, it looks like a book with lots of potential points to discuss.

- male character is not an annoying limp noodle I'm confused by this though. What is that supposed to mean?

It will all depend on the author's writing angle! We might be pleasantly surprised! I only skimmed one page and I didn't *hate* the writing style so hopefully it's enjoyable! I don't personally mind if something is cliche or done before, as long as I enjoy reading it.

I meant the male character was not undercooked/shallow in order to prop up our main character either.

Ha ha, thanks. The only association with limp noodle I could come up with was weak, but not in the sense of poorly developed. And then I thought, well, does every male character have to be the hyper-masculine hero type and then I got confused.

And! I forgot to say, I did express reservations over the copy being recommended by the Twilight author and random store lady said to ignore that, that the book came out at the height of the twilight craze.

Which, fair enough. I will take a chance, random store lady!

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