fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3506 ]

[ SECRET POST #3506 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3506 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Dollhouse]

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[http://transgirlnextdoor.tumblr.com/]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 30 secrets from Secret Submission Post #501.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Where did I indicate she was unique in this? Just because it's a common phenomenon doesn't make it good.

Because, in general, people talk about her and her popularity in a way they don't talk about other people, and in particular, your comment was framed on the particular and individual level - in terms of personal choices and duplicity - not in terms of a systemic understanding.

It's not my fault you wrote a post about how she's lying.

In general, people do a lot of things. I'm not sure why you think that I'm strictly bound by what other people sometimes do. Swift gets a lot of criticism, both fair and unfair. Her fans are awfully quick to jump on anyone who's not 100% gushing over her, I notice.

Oh, and where did I say she was lying? Presumably it's in the same sentence where I said she was unique in her marketing strategy, right? You seem to be reading a lot more into my comments than is actually there.

You said that she has an intentionally convinces people that she is just like them, when in fact that's not true. So you said that she's duplicitous. That's what you said.

Also I think it's probably less the case that she lies to people to convince then that she's like them, and more that people in any situation have similar emotions and relations, but that's another point.

DA

But.... trying to convince people that they're just like you and they understand you in order to get you to buy things is how marketing works?? It's naive to say Taylor Swift doesn't do it when that's how the whole industry is. She's not the special case that's immune and honest, I promise you.

She sings about things people can relate to and that's great, but it's not by convenient accident they downplay or don't mention all the things that make her different that are impossible to achieve by people not born lucky. That's not calling her a liar, that's calling her savvy about sales.

That's not lying, because it's accurately reflecting a commonality that doesn't exist. OP's argument appears to be that there's no commonality whatsoever, but that Swift or her people present her in a way that ignores this fact and misleads viewers. OP is basically talking like fans are a bunch of idiots who Taylor Swift is taking advantage of. That's what I disagree with.

I read OP's argument as saying the commonality is slim but they play that up and ignore the rest in order to sell albums. Which they do like the whole industry does, and music fans all over the world constantly fall for this. Which, depending on how predatory or benign you consider that, could be bad or not so bad.

Only said in a more vitriolic manner.

No, that isn't my argument. You're deliberately choosing to interpret it in the most negative light, even if that means putting words in my mouth. Where did I say her fans were idiots? Ah, nowhere. You've been doing this from the beginning and it's quite puzzling. This whole persecution of Taylor Swift and/or her fans is entirely of your own manufacture, not mine.

I might be misinterpreting you but I assure you it's an entirely sincere misinterpretation.

You said that she sells records by convincing people (especially young women) that she's just like them, and then list a ton of reasons why she's not actually just like them. To me, if she has to convince people that she's just like them to sell records, that implies that she would sell significantly fewer records otherwise. Which then implies that people buy her records, in large part, because they're unaware that she's wealthy (those being the things that you think she has to hide).

I'm really being serious here: which part of that am I wrong about? What am I missing about your argument?

I think I've already covered pretty much everything you're missing, every single time you've accused me of saying something nasty about Taylor Swift or her fans and I pointed out that actually, I haven't. It's all in your head. I get that she gets a lot of undeserved flack, but I think maybe you're carrying some baggage that you're unaware you're carrying, and while you may not mean to be super defensive... well, you are. Nobody's said half the negative things about her that you've dreamed up on your own, and yet you still see Taylor Swift bogeymen everywhere. I don't think any amount of logic or patiently directing you to reread what I actually wrote is going to help at this point.

Well no, I didn't say that. Of course there are similarities between Swift and her target audience, that's why her music appeals to them. But there are significant differences and Swift is accentuating the similarities rather than the differences in order to seem more approachable. That's not lying, and I never called it such. I think your eagerness to defend Swift is so strong that you're treating every minute criticism or observation as an attack.

Well, no, it's because your tone reads ans disdainful and contemptuous and that bugs me. And because - and maybe I am just inventing this out of whole cloth, but I really am sincere - your post really reads like you think there's something illegitimate about people liking Taylor Swift. Like people can't just like her music. They only like it because her publicity machine papers over the differences of wealth and class, and if they didn't, we'd all see how rich she is and immediately no one would like her music.

Again, I want to reiterate that I am being sincere and im not trying to be defensive. It's a way of talking that bothers me in general. I apologize if I am reading too much into it, but at the end of the day, I can't help but get the idea reading your posts that you think there's something illegitimate about liking Taylor Swift's music.

Again, I think you're reading a lot into my comments that simply isn't there. I didn't accuse Taylor Swift of being uniquely villainous. I didn't accuse her of lying. I didn't say her fans were a bunch of idiots. That was all you. I don't mean to sound condescending, but it's a little frustrating that I keep having to point out that no, the things you're taking offense to were never actually said. You seem determined to paint me as a big meanie butt hater, and it's kind of strange, to be honest.

There's nothing illegitimate about liking Swift's music. There's nothing illegitimate about liking anything, because how could one's preferences for music, etc. be anything BUT legitimate? People like what they like.

So what does all the shit about how much money she has have to do with anything at all

It's a very significant difference between her and her target audience that needs to be overlooked or downplayed in order for her to seem approachable to her audience, that's all. My pointing it out seems to have upset you, for some reason?

That's exactly my objection. I think her audience is largely aware that she's wealthy. I think that's, basically, the root of my issue here. It seems insulting to Taylor Swift fans to imply that they are somehow unaware of the fact that she has a lot of money, and that they would find her unapproachable if they found out she did. I think they like her music, find it emotionally resonant, are in tune with her aesthetics, and that's why they buy her songs. I don't think they think she's exactly the same as them. I think it implies ignorance to say they think in those terms. I think people are mostly aware of what's going on. Theyre not being duped.

Sorry if I haven't been able to communicate this issue adequately enough before nowh. Peace.

Being aware that someone is wealthy isn't the same as realizing just how big of a socio-economic chasm that puts between you, though. And not realizing that doesn't make anyone stupid; it's just something most people don't think about. Consider that Taylor Swift will never have to worry about:

* getting into college, deciding a major, getting a self-supporting job, paying off student loans
* getting so sick she can't work, can't get decent medical treatment, and can't pay her medical bills
* whether or not she'll have enough money to pay her rent/utilities AND eat something besides ramen this month
* a beloved pet falling ill and dying because she can't afford to go to the vet
* having enough money to support any children she might have
* making her shoes last another year because she can't afford a new pair
* being stuck in a job she hates because she needs the money
* hoping her car doesn't break down because she needs it for work
* putting up with an asshole boss because she can't lose her job
* ending up homeless if she breaks up with her bf because they're living together and she can't afford a place on her own
* having to censor her sexuality, politics, religion, etc. or risk being kicked out by her family and not having anywhere to go
* saving up enough money to buy/do [that fun thing we love]
Etc. etc.

Those are mundane, unavoidable concerns for most of us, but Swift likely doesn't even think about any of those things because she doesn't have to. Ordinary people - people who don't have her money - are often unaware of just how much easier problems are to solve if you have millions of dollars at your disposal. And why would we? I don't have much of a frame of reference for what it's like to never have any financial worries, ever. That doesn't make me a moron, it's just so far outside my personal experience that it sounds surreal.

Of course they find her lyrics emotionally resonant, etc. But they probably wouldn't be quite so moved without the belief that OP stated - that deep down, she understands exactly how they feel because they're in the same boat. In reality, we're in a canoe and Swift is on a 500 ft. yacht. Sure, we're both tossed by the same ocean waves, but one of us is in a far, far better position if a storm blows up, you dig?

>* putting up with an asshole boss because she can't lose her job

Really? I guess you've never heard of the Kesha and Doctor Luke situation.

While most of the other things that you wrote are true, she has problems that none of us little people can understand, and that's the terrible fear of being a washed-up has-been by age 30. That literally your entire career is over and you're nothing but a joke and a Jeopardy question. You have no idea the kind of anxiety rock stars (and other celebrities) off have because they know they're only one flop or two away from losing everything.

Let me tell you, no matter how mediocre my life is, I wouldn't trade it for Taylor Swift's, no matter how much money you offered me.

I have a friend that likes some of Swift's music and it's so easy for me to see why. They do have some similarities. Which is funny. Because I have zero in common with my favorite rock star and I know it. Whose preference makes more sense - mine or hers? Or do both of ours make sense because you don't make a rational decision about what music appeals to you.

NAYRT

Kesha is not Taylor Swift. I'm guessing she probably doesn't have Swift's enormous bank account, either. She still has far more resources than the average citizen who has to deal with an asshole boss and my guess is that she's not exactly in danger of being homeless quite yet.

As for being washed up, that's one of the risks of celebrity, yes. I see no indication that Taylor Swift decided to become one of the world's most famous pop stars without knowing that was a possibility. Unless she's been very foolish with her money, even if her career dies tomorrow she will still be a millionaire. A millionaire who is no longer famous, but a millionaire nonetheless.

I accept that there are differences between my life situation, or most Swift fans' life situations, and that of Taylor Swift. I'm much more skeptical about how distancing that is, and how much the feelings that fans have depend on their assumed lack of knowledge about her money.

I mean, fuck, man. Keats lived 200 years ago, I can still be moved by his work, you know?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3506 ]

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