[ SECRET POST #3517 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3517 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 58 secrets from Secret Submission Post #503.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

"The circular arguments only show that there is a problem. Everybody was busy trying to explain why it happens, not that it doesn't happen.

As an Actual Real Gay Man, slash fandom in general absolutely has a problem with this."

People writing what they find hot, or the lack of vers fic, is defined as "a problem" first and foremost so I think there is an implication there. This whole thing is about how "slash fandom has a problem" not "I have difficulty with finding things I find hot" - i.e. "it's not me, it's you all."

[(Anonymous)]

People writing what they find hot, or the lack of vers fic, is defined as "a problem" first and foremost so I think there is an implication there. This whole thing is about how "slash fandom has a problem" not "I have difficulty with finding things I find hot" - i.e. "it's not me, it's you all."

I don't think that has to be read as a moral critique. The problem OP identifies is a massive imbalance in the kind of fic that is written. Not that yaoi fic is the main thing written, but that the other kind is not written. And OP is clearly not the only person that thinks this, as witness the fact that this is a recurrent argument.

Is OP turning the problem of being unable to find things that OP finds hot into a more generalized problem than it is? Yeah, but that's honestly just such a common way for people to think in general that it's hard for me to get really angry about it. At the end of the day, OP is right about the kind of fic that exists, and perfectly justified in being frustrated about the lack of fic they like.

[(Anonymous)]

"Is OP turning the problem of being unable to find things that OP finds hot into a more generalized problem than it is?"

And turning it into a issue of Actual Gay Men versus slash writers writing fictional porn. And ignoring that it's porn and people aren't going to write porn they don't find hot. And ignoring that maybe the porn just isn't intended to be for everyone, just like other niche porn isn't intended to be for everyone. Do brutal femdom porn vids with boots and whips have their tropes? Yes absolutely. So many. Are you supposed to assume these are for everyone's consumption, instead of hot to the people who like these tropes? No, why on earth would you? The people who like that type of porn like that type of porn for what it is.

At the end of the day, OP is right that vers fic is lacking. It is lacking. It's everything else I feel is unfair, holding slash fandom as a whole to a different standard than every other type of porn.

[(Anonymous)]

And ignoring that it's porn and people aren't going to write porn they don't find hot. And ignoring that maybe the porn just isn't intended to be for everyone, just like other niche porn isn't intended to be for everyone.

But OP explicitly acknowledges those facts! It seems very hard to me to say that they're ignoring those things when they explicitly acknowledge them. I think OP is referencing Actual Gay Man because the habits of Actual Gay Men are something that has already been drawn into the debate, not as some kind of unbeatable trump card for why the kind of porn OP prefers is right. (And I think also to try to characterize what differentiates yaoi-fic from vers-fic, which still doesn't make either one better than the other).

I just don't see OP as holding slash fic to any kind of different standard.

[(Anonymous)]

Possibly what I should have said is he acknowledges those facts but still refers to the fandom as having "a problem" due to them, which is the part that doesn't compute to me. Either those facts are okay, or not okay, and if you're acknowledging those facts, then what is the problem?

I can sympathize with OP not being able to find vers fic. Tbh I would not mind more vers fic myself. Claiming that it is slash fandom's problem, and that they have a problem because their tastes are not mine is where it starts getting weird.

[(Anonymous)]

I think a better BDSM comparison, if you want to look at through that lens, is 50 Shades of Gray. Yes, it was fictionalized BDSM that got a lot of people hot and bothered. Yes, it utilized tropes associated with how that sex works. But it was extremely annoying to people who engage in BDSM sex, or happen to be familiar with the surrounding culture and dynamics. The only people getting off on that fantasy were people who knew nothing about it at all.

That's fine, in the sense that it succeeded at being erotic to the author and the audience. Unrealistic fantasies have their place. But it would be absurd to try and argue with the (totally valid) criticism with anecdotal, second-hand information from vague sources, just so you can feel vindicated and justified about liking that fantasy. Yet that's exactly what people do with this top/bottom issue. The people in these debates REALLY want to be "right" about something where there is literally no right or wrong answer - and because they've spent years in a fantasy echo chamber, they mistakenly think they're quite knowledgeable about the subject.