fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3529 ]

[ SECRET POST #3529 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3529 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Luther]

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03.

[Orlando Bloom, Elijah Wood, Dominic Monaghan, Billy Boyd, Sean Astin]

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04.

[Supernatural]

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05.

[Ane Brun- "Do You Remember" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lI30Qw69AQ)]

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06.

[The Pillars of the Earth miniseries]

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07.

[Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #504.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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01. https://i.imgur.com/CbFL7JI.jpg

can you uh....clarify exactly what you mean?

Can you clarify what you mean by protagonist-centered morality? I think the show does a pretty good job with moral ambiguity and showing different sides of issues. The recent events with Bismuth and Jasper have made it pretty clear that both characters are meant to be sympathetic, despite respectively being an antagonist and fundamentally disagreeing with Steven/Rose's approach to the war. Plus there's the fact that Steven himself does try his best to understand and empathize with his enemies, even when they're straight-up trying to kill him.

Is Steven ever wrong? I didn't watch the whole thing, but the way that he always seemed to be right, even when he was being stupid and willful annoyed me no end.

Yeah, there are quite a few episodes early on where he makes a mistake or fucks up somehow, makes a huge mess and then has to figure a way out of it. In later episodes that sort of plot isn't so common, but what happens instead is you see him starting to question things he's been brought up to believe about his mother, the crystal gems, the nature of the gem war, and all that. And he's beginning to see through the idealized, sanitized vision he and the other Crystal Gems have made of his mother, Rose Quartz. It's actually some of the most subtle and interesting character development I've seen in a show aimed at kids.

He messed up a mission as early as Cheeseburger Backpack (the third episode) -- the Gems aren't particularly hard on him about it, but we find out later that they have plot-based reasons for that.

There are a bunch of episodes where the point is for him to learn a Valuable Lesson. From the first season, Future Vision, Winter Forecast, Secret Team, and Open Book all count.

And there are plenty where he messes up or needs to be saved at some point throughout the story. Serious Steven, Joking Victim, and Steven the Sword Fighter all have some of this.

He gets a lot better at being smart and thoughtful over the course of the series. It's honestly some really satisfying character development to watch.

Almost every time he interferes with Sadie and Lars he's in the wrong.

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

diet_poison - 2016-09-01 23:57 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-02 05:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-02 06:09 (UTC) - Expand

Even if it were true that Steven is always right (not so, as mentioned by the others), that wouldn't be protagonist-centred morality - that would be an intelligent and moral protagonist (possibly one that's boring, but that's a whole different criticism).

Protagonist-centred morality is when what the protagonist does is right, simply because it's what they did. To keep this to SU, let's use the Sadie/Lars example others have brought up - if Steven's meddling had worked, or if Sadie and Lars's reaction was treated by the narrative as incorrect, rather than how Steven learns his lesson...that would be protagonist-centred morality.

Edited 2016-09-02 00:38 (UTC)

Yeah, this. The show has mostly avoided "bad things are okay when the Designated Heroes do them, for no other reason than that they are the Designated Heroes."

The only times it's failed at that, that I can think of, are a couple of the Lars episodes. Which are obnoxious, but don't overshadow the whole rest of the series.

I thought with at least some of the Lars and Sadie eps, as an anon pointed out, he's shown to be in the wrong.

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

erinptah - 2016-09-02 00:21 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

diet_poison - 2016-09-02 00:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-02 05:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

diet_poison - 2016-09-02 15:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

ketita - 2016-09-02 01:15 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Spoiler warning for season 3

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-02 11:05 (UTC) - Expand

But... SU doesn't really have protagonist-centered morality? Certainly not by the standard definition, which would be "Steven does bad things and gets forgiven for them because he's the protagonist." He tries his best to be kind and understanding to everyone he meets, even the antagonists, and sometimes that works out well (like with Peridot), sometimes it works out poorly (like with Jasper and Eyeball), and sometimes it just complicates the situation even more (Bismuth, Lapis, and arguably Centipeedle).

Steven does still see the world in a kind of black and white way, but he's a kid, after all. He's inherited a 5000 year old war from his mother, and there's a lot he doesn't know. Season 3 has been all about learning the things he didn't know and how he reconciles that with what he thinks is right.

He's very annoying, yes, but the show is worth watching anyway imo

You finding the protagonist annoying =/= the show displaying protagonist-centered morality.

agreed

(I also don't think he's annoying most of the time, myself, but it is a separate issue)

I find his morality preachy and annoying.

(no subject)

diet_poison - 2016-09-02 15:57 (UTC) - Expand

What junior high aged kid wasn't, though?

He is 13, turned 14 during the show.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-02 11:06 (UTC) - Expand

you're welcome to not like the show, because it's okay to have opinions. And you're welcome to not like Steven, because that's an opinion and it's okay to have one.

but your reasoning in this secret is factually inaccurate and objectively incorrect, and makes me wonder how much of the show you have actually watched.

I read "seen interesting things about the show" to mean that they hadn't watched it, they were just reacting to what they'd seen/read online?

Which (especially if it came from Tumblr) could be anywhere from slightly wrong to missing the point completely.

God knows there are things that Tumblr has scared me away from!

how the fuck do you manage to enjoy SUPERNATURAL if you dislike protagonist-centered morality????

mte?? I don't even like SU (honestly for a lot of the same reason OP seems not to) but to excuse Supernatural as something different is completely boggling me.

SPN fans are idiots, what do you expect?

Well, that escalated quickly!

Man, Supernatural is the DEFINITION of protagonist-centered morality, to the point where if a character starts breaking the rules for himself and never has to actually apologize/change for it, I call it "Dean Winchester Syndrome" (see also: Rick Grimes)

The way I see it, the real heroes atm are Garnet, Pearl and Amethyst

Steven is their morality level gauger, and the show is still building him up to become the main hero

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