[ SECRET POST #3552 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3552 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 52 secrets from Secret Submission Post #508.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's possible to acknowledge that there are certain patterns that exist around what relationships do and don't get shipped in fandom, and that one of those patterns has to do with race, without actually saying that every single person who ships those things is a virulent racist. And I think that's what OP is doing. I don't think anyone is actually saying that you're not allowed to ship white men, or bad for doing it. But I don't see any reason to pretend the patterns don't exist.

[(Anonymous)]

I acknowledge there are certain patterns in fandom.
I acknowledge that one of those patterns has to do with race.
I don't think they are saying every single person who ships those is a virulent racist.
I don't think anyone is literally banning me from shipping white men.

I do think POC like me are being totally erased and talked over in this conversation, as usual. I'm somewhat used to that now, to be honest.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, maybe people should do a better job making it clear that the patterns and prejudices we're talking about are only part of what's going on with shipping. I don't think pointing out a pattern implies, or should be read as implying, that everyone is part of that pattern.

But outside of that, I'm not sure how else you have the conversation, without talking about the fact that the patterns exist.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a pattern among who? White people? Honestly all of this sounds like people pointing out a 'lots of white people in Western fandom' problem then trying to apply it to 'all fandom' when it's just not true.

[(Anonymous)]

Among fans. It doesn't have to mean calling particular individuals out. When you look, on a high level, at how popular ships are in fandoms and across fandoms, there is a consistent pattern where ships that include non-white people are less popular than you would 'expect' given the kind of relationship and the size of the fandom. Obviously, that's only one element in the broader question of why people ship what they ship, and no one person is individually responsible for it. But it's also not something that just, like, happened by chance, I don't think.

I agree that it doesn't apply to anime or K-pop or other non-Western fandoms. That's a fair point. But I think it's a pattern that exists in Western fandoms.

[(Anonymous)]

You don't feel there's something marginalizing and a little ironic about people insisting "It's a big problem and pattern in fandom" and meaning only Western fandom and usually mostly the white people in them? Especially from people who are supposedly fighting the racists? :\

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's overgeneralizing, sure.

Do you think of anime fandom or k-pop fandom or other non-Western fandoms as a particularly POC-centric space? In terms of the people in them?

[(Anonymous)]

Far more POC there, proportionally, than Western TV or Western video games. Absolutely.

[(Anonymous)]

Fair enough. Thasn't been my experience but I trust you.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say that it's POC-centric because it's not that either. There are still always more white people in them than POC because the USA dominates almost English-speaking fandom on the internet and it's predominantly white, but the proportions are less skewed. You'll see looots of people from English-speaking Asian countries in Animanga fandom for example; less so people from Hong Kong who like Jessica Jones. Plus you're watching the media of a different country and less inclined to impose the customs and tropes of your own onto them.

Let's be fair, Animanga fandoms have their own issues. Lots of them. But they're different issues from US TV issues.

[(Anonymous)]

DA There is something... weirdly ironic with white fandom being far more concerned with the doings of white fandom and what white fandom thinks about these sorts of topics and how these things apply to white fans. Probably the idea that they might be policing others doesn't even enter their minds.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. IF WHITE PEOPLE IN WESTERN FANDOM HAVE A PROBLEM, ALL OF FANDOM HAS THIS PROBLEM AND IT IS AN OVERALL TREND EVERYWHERE WITH EVERYONE.

No, that's not how this works.

[(Anonymous)]

I read that as "far more concerned with the dongs of white fandom" and was pleased to realize the overall meaning didn't change much considering the context.