fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3566 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3566 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Forcibly exposing someone's undergarments is sexual assault. If Malfoy did that to Hermione we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I got pantsed once at soccer practice. Do you think it's an adequate characterization to say that I was sexually assaulted? I don't really think it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debagging

It's sexual harassment at the minimum.

I think it's definitely bullying at the minimum, and sometimes sexual harassment or sexual assault depending on the context

I think, in the context of what James did to Snape, it was clearly bullying but you'd be hard-pressed to convince me it was sexual harassment, let alone sexual assault

Yes it was sexual assault. That is cut and dried. However, whether you feel violated by it or not is up to you. Some people can wave it off (and believe it or not there are a few -very few- women who can even do this with violent penetrative rape) and some people feel utterly violated by it, and people can fall into a spectrum anywhere along the line. That is their 100% right to feel violated or not, depending on their own emotions. If you didn't feel violated, then fine for you.

It is obvious that in the Harry Potter canon that Snape felt at least some degree of violation from it. And that is valid too. What James did was sexual assault though. That he didn't intend for it to seem like a violation beyond it being a very nasty prank to distract his friend is neither here nor there because it is the victim that gets to define how violating it was.

I certainly did not feel and would never define it as sexual assault, given the context and experience. I think there are times when it can be sexual assault but I don't think saying it always is makes any sense whatsoever. To be perfectly honest, if we're defining pantsing someone as cut-and-dried unquestionable sexual assault, I'm not sure how useful the term "sexual assault" is, or whether it deserves the seriousness that we impute to it.

So I don't think we even reach the question of the validity of Snape's reaction. But I do want to say, with regards to that, that bullying is also negative and causes negative reactions. It's just different from sexual assault.

That is great for you personally, you can define your reaction however you like, but it is a form of sexual assault. You don't get to minimize how others feel because you didn't feel (or perhaps, don't want to feel like you were) sexually assaulted.

Again, I think there are contexts where it is sexual assault. I don't think it's minimizing how others feel if I say that, in the context in which it happened when I was pantsed, it wasn't sexual assault. Because it's context-dependent.

No it isn't. Look, I get that you don't want to feel like you were assaulted and that it might open up some uncomfortable feelings for you, but you were. I'm sorry that this is getting to you though.

I have doubts as to whether you are replying to yourself

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2016-10-09 00:59 (UTC) - Expand

That's really not any part of my motivation here. And I'm still kind of at a loss as to the explanation of your whole position.

da

I can totally see the sexual assault angle in this, but to play devil advocate, I think it actually would be different if it had happened to Hermione. Females are automatically more sexualised than males, so that would be the instant thought in everyone's mind - 'oh look what's under her skirt'. Whereas James's intention was simply to expose the poor condition of Snape's underwear rather than his genitals, and I seriously doubt anyone was having sexual thoughts about him. But still, it's super fucked up, and I do agree it was sexual assault.

James' intent does not matter, the assailant doesn't get to define how serious it is. To Snape it was a lot more of a violation than intended.

You act as if James made centaurs rape Snape.

"Sexual assualt" connotes rather more than pantsing someone.

Actually it doesn't, and that you think it does is emblematic of a larger social problem.

Actually, it does, and the fact that you think it doesn't makes you an over-reactive ninny who is hard at work trivializing actual sexual assault.

You are the one trivializing sexual assault here, same as the people that talk about "legitimate rape" when someone reports an assault that doesn't meet your personal standards.

NAYRT

Do you mind giving some sort of, like, outline of the reasons that pantsing someone is undeniably and obviously sexual assault?

Because, I mean, it doesn't seem obvious to most of the rest of us

That is already been covered, extensively, don't try and derail by demanding education.

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-education/

Isn't the burden of proof on you to explain why you think it is, if the majority doesn't agree?

It certainly hasn't been covered in this thread in the slightest, and given that multiple people are expressing confusion about the idea, I hardly think it's derailing.

I'm also not honestly sure what other argument we're derailing from? Like... we're not really talking about anything else in this thread, are we? Like, this is more or less just an argument about whether it was sexual assault? So it seems like it's pretty central to the point here.

That proves it, you lost the argument.

(Anonymous) - 2016-10-09 17:40 (UTC) - Expand

Legally it's not in most countries.

t. Had this argument with lawyers in mine.

Once when I was playing tag in elementary school, I was It and chasing some kid, lunged for him, and accidentally pantsed him. How long should I be in jail for?