fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3571 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3571 ⌋

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It was a knee-jerk reaction (sorry Kallanda). I don't think it's 'do unto others' so much as there should be a certain level of circumspection.

Oh, I agree, and I think the Smug European thing gets super old (not saying that Kallanda is this) when pretty much every problem America has, from racial unrest to shitty politicians, is something that is just as much of a problem everywhere else, if not even worse.

But America is one of a small handful of countries thats politics and economic policies effect the whole world. In that sense, everyone needs to weigh in because it really really matters. They might not be able to vote, but their voices might sway someone who was unsure.

I'm sort of confused as to how her comment was even offensive (another USian here)

Well, the implication that both candidates are equally terrible is pretty insulting to those of us who aren't violent white supremacists.

I never said they're equally terrible. Three raccoons in a trench coat are better than Trump. And if it comes down to it, obviously Hillary is the not-insane choice....however, I do not entirely trust her to keep the peace either.

She does have her (major) problems, too - and either way it's a hell of a lot of steps down from now - and the rest of the world is just baffled that these are the two human beings who "made" the race.

You can acknowledge that two things are bad, while knowing that one of the things is a lot more bad than the other.

"If you think they're equally terrible, you're probably a violent white supremacist!"

JFC, I can't believe this is the level of political discourse in America.

If you're going to use quotation marks, leave the quote as it was, don't change the wording. When you change the wording, even if the meaning stays the same, it is no longer a quote.

If you're going to lecture me, you can fuck right off.

The Clintons have left a trail of bodies, scandals, and shady bullshit behind them that would reach from sea to shining sea. Bill's presidency turned the news cycle into a Tom Clancy novel. I think Trump is a worse choice than a woman who's a skilled and ruthless politician, but pretending that either candidate is anything but terrible is laughable.

I don't need to pretend that Hillary is wonderful person to vote for her over a guy who seems to continuously spew shit out of every orifice.

Hillary Clinton is not really that different as a politician or a nominee than Barack Obama. For the most part the worst you can say about her is that she's mostly going to continue the broad status quo of mainstream Democratic American politics. Which is a flawed mainstream in many ways, but it hasn't burned down the world, and so I'm just not sure it is fair to call her terrible.

Also the idea that the Clintons have left a trail of bodies, specifically, is dubious at best

This. The shit she's done really isn't any different from the shit that every single other politician does. Is it great? No, but until we manage to enact major campaign finance reform, it's stupid to expect a politician to give themselves a deliberate disadvantage by not playing with the same tools that everyone else uses.

are you...do you really believe that? the conspiracy theory about them having people killed?

I think most high-level politicians have people killed. The fact that it seems to keep cropping up just suggests that either the amount is notable or they're bad at keeping it quiet.

When you say "have people killed", do you have in mind something more like Anwar al-Awlaki, or more like Vince Foster

Both, although I lean towards believing Vince Foster really was just a suicide. Although, really, it could go either way.

This isn't something I'm willing to talk in-depth about, but my family was involved with the FSB. I know enough about the crazy bullshit Russia does to have a very dim view of politics, and I know that the USA has it's own laundry list of continued atrocities. America is very good at denying it's conspiracies until they're forced into the light, and this is helped by the fact that most Americans don't want to believe that their officials would do this sort of thing.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not denying the possibility of stuff like that. I just think that stuff tends to exist, in the US, more as widespread systemic corruption and a thousand petty tyrannies, rather than specific assassination plots under the control of the intelligence community, let alone top politicians. For the most part. It's not that I trust officials, I just think they're way too banal for that kind of thing.

Also, I feel like, you know, with Clinton specifically - allegations against Clinton have been so widely investigated and none of them sound all that substantial.

Yeah, love her or hate her, she's the most heavily vetted presidential candidate we've ever had.

Yes, when political assassinations occur in the US, they are surely the work of the Clintons, two of the most heavily scrutinized figures in American politics.

That's an interesting take. I mean, politicians know a LOT of people, especially older people and people in really high-stress environments, and people die.

Furthermore I think it would actually not be realistic at all for "most" high-level politicians to order murders and get away with it on the reg.

WTF? I really don't understand people who go full on conspiracy theory about Clinton. Is she perfect? No. But she is not worse than any other politician. I mean the embassy deaths that everyone keeps bringing up are fewer embassy deaths than happened during other Secretaries of State. But you never really heard anything about those deaths. Is Clinton the best person to lead the country? Debatable. Is she terrible, especially compared to pretty much anyone else in politics? Not by a long shot. And I hate that so many people constantly spew the "terrible" line, often without facts to support it. (You didn't do this, but if I see one more person bring up that she "volunteered to defend a child rapist, got him aquitted, and then laughed about it", I might scream.)

Ok, that's fair. I didn't get that from what Kallanda said, though I can see why you would.

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