[ SECRET POST #3614 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3613 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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03.
[Project Runway + various reality shows]


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05. http://i.imgur.com/clVGMSG.jpg
[sex scene from The Wolf of Wall Street]


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07.
[Ace Attorney]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #516.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. http://i.imgur.com/QJrnaCh.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

For most of his life he was a relatively liberal progressive. You know how you get a person with regressive views? Take a progressive and add time. The more progressive you are, the worse time will make you appear.

[(Anonymous)]

That's a weird way to look at it, considering you can substitute "progressive" with anything really.

"You know how you get a person with regressive views? Add time."

[(Anonymous)]

It is worse with progressives because all the things they are so strident about getting right, all the things they love to all out, well time will make that call out language and that those new right views seem as bad if not worse than the thing they are calling out as they in turn are supplanted.

[(Anonymous)]

The irony in this comment is funny to me. Time will make fools of us all regardless of our feelings, though.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but it is gonna make the tumblristas so angry as it happens to them. That is going to be fun to watch.

[(Anonymous)]

Doubtful they'll notice or believe it, don't schadenfreude prematurely now. Remember: it's not you that's out of touch, it's the children that are wrong. Applies in general to every group.

[(Anonymous)]

FFS, do you people have to make EVERYTHING about Tumblr?

[feotakahari]

I don't quite buy that. My experience is that the average person treats people like shit if s/he doesn't understand them. Each new generation understands more groups, so they call out the older generation for treating some groups like shit, then are called out in turn. The solution seems simple: treat people respectfully even if you don't understand them at all.

(And then liberals yell at me for acting respectful towards people they think are nutjobs who should be mocked.)

[(Anonymous)]

As a way of describing Kipling in the context of his time, that's at best lacking in historical nuance, and probably just wrong

[likeadeuce]

I don't know much about Kipling, what's your source for the idea he was progressive?

[(Anonymous)]

You can just say it about almost anyone and everyone will go like "seems plausible" regardless of the context

People actually don't know much about history

[(Anonymous)]

NA

Because he wrote stories like "Elspeth" where all the sympathy is with the native girl? Or "The Miracle of Purun Bhagat", where a young man of Brahmin caste does a lot of integration with the Brits and rises in government then, at an age when his culture tells him this is appropriate, gives it all up to be a mendicant monk - and goes into that story with so much sympathy and respect for why Purun did that and what the end of his life was like.

Or the Puck books, which are effectively a primer on what colonialism is and how it works?

And just, all the wonderful people in his stories, horse traders and Muslim dowagers seeing the sights, and scholars and soldiers and...

He was a product of the British Empire at its height, and some of his language reflects that, but he was by no means a hidebound conservative, yeah?

[likeadeuce]

That's interesting, thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Welcome.

[(Anonymous)]

Like... none of what you describe here is really incompatible with conservatism. Certainly, none of it is incompatible with liberal unionism, and i'd argue that liberal unionism in Kipling's time is a basically conservative movement

I don't think it's basically the case that being sympathetic with natives is enough to prove that you're not a conservative or in sympathy with imperialism as a system, and i think you're operating on a misunderstanding of the historical context if you think Kipling's peers were incapable of recognizing that Indians could on occasion be intelligent. I think whatever idea of a 'hidebound conservative' you might have is basically a strawman or a red herring

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Well... "conservative" is often used as shorthand for "bigoted arsehole" these days, which I suppose is what I was responding to. (And I do know some very lovely people who consider themselves conservative, so that was wrong of me.)

Can we at least agree that he wasn't "hidebound"?

It sounds like you have a lot of familiarity with the period - how would you personally describe him?

And, "i'd argue that liberal unionism in Kipling's time is a basically conservative movement"

What would you consider "progressive" for the day? Because he was a product of that time, not this one.

[(Anonymous)]

Bernie Sanders, tho

[sarillia]

Do you have a favorite poem of his? I love If.

Op

[(Anonymous)]

Ballad of East and West is my favorite poem not just of his but of all poems ever

[arcadiaego]

I love the Barrack Room Ballads sung by Peter Bellamy.

https://mainlynorfolk.info/peter.bellamy/records/barrackroomballads.html

Cholera Camp is particularly striking but obviously very dark! Bellowhead do an amazing version of that too.

[tree_and_leaf]

Oh gosh, yes, Cholera Camp is just chilling.

Here's Kipling reflecting on WWI, and obviously both proud of the bravery of the troops and feeling guilty as hell:
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/57433

But my actually favourite is probably "Harp Song of the Dane Women."

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/47691

[vethica]

Death of the author, and all that. Kipling wasn't very admirable as a person, but he was a fantastic poet, and there's nothing wrong with recognizing that.

[arcadiaego]

I think it's possible to appreciate that he was a skilled writer and wrote some good things (and did some good things in his life!) while also acknowledging the massively problematic cultural situation at the time and how he was involved/contributed. It's an absolutely fascinating if depressing period of history and full of contradictions that it's good to face up to. (Especially if you're British, which I am.)

[tree_and_leaf]

Hear, hear! (Also British).