[ SECRET POST #3614 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3613 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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03.
[Project Runway + various reality shows]


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05. http://i.imgur.com/clVGMSG.jpg
[sex scene from The Wolf of Wall Street]


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07.
[Ace Attorney]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #516.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. http://i.imgur.com/wCIiD6S.png

[philstar22]

I am generally suspicious of portrayals of people on reality tv, but in this case I'm not really. Because for most of the time he was portrayed as nice. And then he and Erin were total dicks to Cornelius. I don't think that was a sudden change in portrayal. I think they actually did that, and then the producers went with it.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. There is a lot of ripping things out of context and cutting in the editing prodess to make people appear meaner than they are, but if you say certain things that make you look like an ass, it's not the editing's fault alone.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah.

I also felt like he and Erin got really cocky after having a couple of wins. I honestly can't believe Erin's still in the competition after having sent so many bad looks down the runway. But footage editing doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't listen to advice. And let Cornelius do most of the work. And that they threw him under the bus at the end.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. In fact, it was clear to me that early on, the producers were rooting for Erin definitely, and building up Dexter, too. Then that one particular episode happened, and everything did a 180. If Erin and Dexter had at least taken responsibility for what they had done, they would have looked a lot better. Instead, they made themselves look like assholes. The camera was only there to capture it.

Which was really disappointing to me since I was rooting for both of them until that point.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't really see what the big deal about that particular episode was, and why people call it 'bullying' or 'mean girls' or in this case 'being total dicks'. Dexter and Erin were a bit cliquish, maybe, but bullying would be something much worse and more continuous. And the potential cliquishness probably only happened because Dexter knew that Cornelius had been saying all kinds of less than nice things about him earlier in the competition (in episode 2 in particular). They just didn't get along, but there definitely wasn't bullying on either side. As for the 'throwing under the bus' - they had to pick someone, neither one of them wanted to answer that question, but the judges loved Erin's coat so Dexter did have a pretty good reason to choose Cornelius. Again, not bullying, not throwing someone under the bus.

Also I'm sure D&E didn't know they were 'acting like dicks' in the work room, since Cornelius didn't seem to even try communicating with them. He could have just said 'hey guys we still have work to do, I already made one skirt and I could use some help finishing this second one' or 'Erin that coat looks great, we don't have time to be too perfectionist about it so I think you could start working on another piece already'. He voiced all his frustrations to the cameras but none to his actual teammates so for all we know they had no idea there was an issue.

So yeah, it was a disastrous team with really poor team work and communication... but I don't see the dickishness, the mean girls, the throwing under the bus or especially the bullying :p

[(Anonymous)]

Here's my stance on this whole business: Cornelius is very insecure. He's genuinely a mean person, which we've seen throughout the show, and I don't believe for a second that he should get a pass on all his shit-talking and bullying just because of the Erin and Dexter episode. I feel like Erin and Dexter tried to vote him out because he's genuinely unpleasant to work with, but, unfortunately, they didn't have the guts to come out and say that, and by trying to attack his work ethic to legitimize their decision (even though he's honestly very skilled when it comes to his designs), they set themselves up to have their arguments picked apart when Cornelius got angry and defensive. Tim Gunn interpreted what happened to Cornelius as bullying because of how upset he got and because Tim has only ever seen him in critiques and on stage, so he saved him, not being aware that Erin and Dexter were in the right to not want him around.

Cornelius should have gone home. Tim wasted his save on someone who manipulated him into staying. Erin and Dexter were clearly trying not to make the whole thing personal, but all Cornelius ever does is personally attack people. It's fucked up that everyone's on in his side. Like, I'm glad the editors kept Erin and Dexter likeable in the first half of the season rather than set them up as villains, because on paper it seems like that should make the viewer more sympathetic to them when the drama finally hit the screen. But. Didn't work.

I'm very passionate about this drama apparently.

[(Anonymous)]

This is an interesting take on it, and there definitely could be some truth to it, but I still don't think D&E meant to make him feel bad in any way.
I don't think Cornelius is that mean either tbh, but I could definitely see how Dexter might feel that way, given that Cornelius was already badmouthing Dexter's designs after his good placement in the first challenge. They just started off on the wrong foot and never quite got along after that, which yeah, understandable. But mostly I see the bad team work as a communication failure.

100% agreed that Tim wasted his save just to make a point and because he felt sympathy, when in reality Cornelius should have already gone home in the previous episode when his atrociously made top somehow beat Brik's flawlessly made weird print outfit. and you're right that it's fucked up how everyone is on Corny's side AND sees the 'bullying' as a reason to attack D&E personally (especially Dexter, since he's easier to approach. Erin doesn't seem to have a Twitter account or it's a well hidden one).

Even Cornelius didn't use these hyperbolic expressions. It was all Tim ('mean girls', like... he wasn't even in the work room most of the time so how did he jump to that conclusion...?) and Kelly Osbourne ('bullying', which she btw has a habit of seeing everywhere - S14 team work episode AND RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars S1). It's like, just because these people used dramatic words, probably just to make more engaging tv, doesn't mean that the behavior seen in the episode actually fits any reasonable definition of those words :|

I'm obviously passionate about this drama too and happy to see someone else still on Dexter's side :)

^OP

[(Anonymous)]

sorry, forgot to add that the above message was from the OP!

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I don't think Dexter and Erin tried to make him feel bad, either, and I'm sorry if I came off otherwise. I just personally believe that the two of them wanted him out because he's got a lot of negative energy, which we've seen in spades over this entire season, and it's much easier to vote out someone who brings you down rather than someone you're close to. The problem was just that Cornelius had good designs and insights that particular week so... they should have just said "he's hard to work with" rather than complaining about his aesthetic. They might have been called out for the reason not being good enough, sure, but I just feel like if they owned up to it they wouldn't be looking like so much of a clique.

I also don't believe for a second that Cornelius had to do "all the work" for that team. We've seen Dexter and Erin have fun in the work room, sure, but just because they have loud personalities when they hang out doesn't mean they're using up any more or less time than Cornelius whenever he went over to Nathalia's to talk shit about someone's clothes, you know? And yeah, Cornelius swapping his skirt over must have taken a lot of his time, sure, but I'm sure if he'd asked Dexter and Erin for help, they would have gladly given it. Teams have always helped each other in this show.

CAN I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT BRIK'S AWESOME PROBLEM PATTERN DRESS??? I. can not. believe. that that didn't score higher. I'm still angry! It was so good! Ugh. While I'm on the topic of Cornelius, though, his stupid emoji dress was garbage, I wish it hadn't won that week. Whatever. WHATEVER

Basically, yes. Lots of passion over here. I'm not attracted to Dexter in the least and Erin's actually my least favourite designer in the competition in terms of fashion, but I'm firmly of the belief that Tim wasted his save and that Dexter deserved better on his run of the show.

... Also I'm mad that Tim really vocally hates Gretchen from Season 8. I don't think she was a bad person or a "villain" and these are both things Tim has said about her. UGH PROJECT RUNWAY

[philstar22]

Ivy was the real villain of season 8, but Gretchen certainly started it. The way she and the others treated Michael C was shameful. At least Mondo apologized and realized that they had been wrong. I never once heard an apology from her, just her acting like the victim when Tim called her out. Tim is very protective of the designers and doesn't like when one attacks another, so I totally get why he doesn't like Gretchen. Ivy was a hundred times worse than Gretchen, though, and I wish Tim would remember that.

[(Anonymous)]

Ivy was insane. Gretchen had a bad attitude, and I'm not trying to defend that, but there are leagues of difference between someone having a bad attitude in a stressful environment and someone being a villain who didn't deserve to win. I feel like Gretchen was quietly confident and didn't really like working in teams, and people confused that with her being a bitch or being abrasive even before the drama started. It made her unpleasant behavior look much worse and I feel bad for her because a lot of the complaints against her feel like attacks on her personality rather than just the things she's done.

It's been years since I've seen it, though. Maybe I'll rewatch it and find that she's actually a monster. Who knows.

[(Anonymous)]

OP, I was also extremely attracted to him and loved his work, but after his shittiness towards Cornelius, and his mean girl friendship with Erin, I just got sad and disappointed in him and myself for liking him so much. I don't see how one could blame editing for the things he said and how he acted. That said,I'm still not a fan of Cornelius and I 100% beieve that he'd have jumped at the chance of being part of a mean girl clique himself.

[annethecatdetective]

I liked Dexter a lot at first-- the androgynous thing really made me happy, and I genuinely liked the designs that he showed off at the start when he got on the show (then again, I really did like Erin's portfolio, too, and then I've hated everything she's sent down the runway). And in the earlier episodes, Cornelius really did start things with him, and for a while it was a lot like he was trying to stir up drama and no one was really rising to the bait.

BUT, that team challenge, Dexter really did go mean girl (or mean boy) on Cornelius. I don't know how much of it was Erin's influence and how much was just the rising stakes of ongoing competition bringing out the worst in people sometimes, and I felt really torn and upset because Dexter did have every right to not be happy about working with Cornelius, and I'd previously had a clear favorite between them, and then... Dexter is wasting time hanging out with Erin, all the ideas that the two of them are coming up with are kind of terrible, Erin takes Cornelius' fabric, then takes a finished piece Cornelius had made... he's stuck doing a lot of the work while his teammates chat in a lounge area, and then they really did throw him under the bus when he was not responsible for the worst parts of their looks.

I don't think Cornelius deserved to go home that week at all, and I think if the judges had looked at the tapes, they'd have realized that, but they don't, nor do they seem to think very critically about the answers they get when they ask the designers who should go home. Yes, Tim Gunn did throw away his save just to kind of make a point about the bullying, because Cornelius isn't that good a designer or that nice a person in the workroom himself, but as much as I didn't care for him, boy did I love the look on Erin's face when he was safe.

(Honestly, I think she was responsible for the look more than either of them because of the leadership role she took and the way that Dexter kind of falls in line with her and Cornelius felt he couldn't make his voice heard one against two, and just because... wow, I don't know why she's the judges' pet, but... yeah, I didn't hold out much hope that they would send her home)

I haven't completely given up on Dexter-- I think that he has an interesting viewpoint, though it can be hit-or-miss when it comes to finished pieces. And I think he is not, at heart, a real bully, but you can engage in bullying behavior without being a real bully, and you can also be a bully in some situations only to find yourself on the other side of things the next day, and that complicates the situation a lot. For me, it all depends on where they both go from here and what lessons they learn going forward. I mean, I know it's all in the past at this point and I might be behind by a week, I'm not sure, but... I am rooting for Dexter to return to my good graces, but I'm not going to give him a total pass just because I'd empathized so much with him early on.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Well I'm definitely glad to hear you haven't totally given up on him! And yes, what you said about his history with Cornelius is absolutely true and something a lot of watchers totally ignored or forgot.

But, I still don't see the 'mean girl' thing. I just don't understand what Tim meant with it. I'm not even sure how much Dexter and Erin actually slacked off. They must have done it a bit because otherwise Rik wouldn't have given the 'living the life' comment, but at the same time according to Dexter they actually used footage of him&Erin on a mandatory lunch break so that makes me wonder why they had to do that if they did go goof off in the lounge all the time during the actual work too. I think they probably just took one or two short breaks and the whole thing was overblown by everyone. In any case, Dexter finished his own look and that was enough. I could understand side-eyeing Erin a bit since she really could have used all the time for making a skirt to go with her coat, but her poor time management really can't be seen as being mean or a bully, imo.

I think it was Corny's time to go even if nobody in particular was responsible for the team failure (Like erin said, the biggest failure was that they didn't buy other colors and that was all their fault equally). I think it's fair that in cases where there's no clear loser, the desicion can come down to their previous work, and based on that it was definitely Cornelius to go, since he was almost eliminated in the previous episode.

I just realllly really hope Dexter gets over this backlash and does All Stars. I'm sure he'll be invited sooner or later but he's given some pretty mixed messages on whether he wants to be on tv again or not. Maybe if more people had this approach that you do - rooting for him to return to your good graces, rather than just outright slaying him for supposedly being a bully - it would be easier for him to actually do that. Here's to hoping :)