fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3616 ]

[ SECRET POST #3616 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3616 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #517.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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08. http://i.imgur.com/DKmyYNK.png

I don't mean to object to your feelings or preferences - I don't think that there's anything objectionable in it - but I do think it's important to maintain a distinction between representation and shipping, and I think you confuse the two a bit in the last paragraph. It's tricky because there is a tension between the two, in this case, but it doesn't really sound like you're interested in the pairing for representational purposes, you know?

I do think it's important

*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*

Sorry, I forgot people object to that

say instead "useful"

+1

"I like a ship because they're cute together and important to meeee" is not representation.

Representation is simply "this person is canon LGBT". There's no provision that you personally need to enjoy a character or relationship.

this

expecting only to have characters represent you that you like is unrealistic and also idk, entitled? (what if others don't find themselves represented in the pairing you like? should we scratch representation all together for the sake of shipping?)

Yeaaahhh I basically never like any of the gay or bisexual couples on TV or in film. I don't get mad about it though, because someone out there probably does like that couple, and it's another example of canon queer characters out there repping the fact that, hey! This sexuality exists and isn't shameful or wrong!

The one thing I'd ask for is for my well-meaning fangirl friends to stop insisting I watch things just because there's representation. I never want to watch yuri on ice or whatever. I just don't. Sorry 'bout it.

You should watch YOI because it's a good show regardless

or we can all decide what we feel is worth consuming media-wise, kindly fuck off

I don't want to watch YOI either. My whole dash is full of it, but I simply blacklist and say nothing.
You do you. A friend of mine admitted that she doesn't want to watch it but she thinks blond Yuri is cute and got a lot of angry anons screaming about representations.

Ehh, honestly this one is kind of hard for me because I can't disentangle my want of these two to be canon for "shipping" and my want for these two to be canon for "representation". They're kind of tangled up in one another because I honestly think this is one of the few pairings that has at least some basis in canon (what little canon we have), and I also think it would be absolutely fucking incredible to see a company tackle a gay relationship where it isn't stereotypical hunk A meets stereotypical hunk B (not that I don't think Genji and Zenyatta couldn't find one another attractive, but we're talking a robot monk with a fixed facial expression and a guy who has been so carved up by his brother that he's been housed in a mostly cybernetic body, I'm betting Genji isn't exactly a typical supermodel beneath the visor if he's even got much of his face/lower skull left, I picture their relationship, whether simply close master/student or more, being built upon a more emotional foundation that probably means the perception of what BOTH of them found "attractive" before kind of widens to include one another), not to mention the whole in-world tension between Omnics and humans, it would be interesting seeing little snippets of some of the less sympathetic Overwatch members dealing with a teammate being romantically involved with an Omnic, etc.

I fully admit I'm biased on this though, which is why I said I'm being selfish in my secret. My problem is that I'm betting we're going to get a stereotypical reveal where it's one of the female members (50% chance they're going to go with stereotypical "Lena is a butch lesbian" which...I don't know, as much as I think Lena is awesome I feel like it doesn't HAVE to be "masculine coded lady=lesbian" all the time? I have conflicting feelings about this...), and then absolutely everyone else is going to be hinted at as being average default straight and I just...I've really enjoyed being in a fandom where the developers have let it be known there's canon LGBT representation, but no one knows who it was so it's almost like everyone simultaneously is and isn't LGBT and except for a little tension between some shipping factions (Genji/Mercy shippers have no love lost for Genyatta shippers and from what I gather even if I make it a point to stay out of that, the feeling is pretty mutual right back), the fandom has been surprisingly chill, especially for a fandom mostly based on tumblr.

I just don't foresee this ending well, on multiple levels. :/

Representation is great. Shipping is also great. Why do the two have to intersect?

Like I said in my secret, I'm definitely being selfish about this to a point, but I honestly do think they would be interesting representation wise. It just never goes well when you admit that something you ship is something you also think would be good representation wise, so I fully admit my bias. (It's a little like the whole Peridot/Lapis thing in Stephen Universe, while I have limited knowledge about this I do remember there being a whole "shipping or legit representation?" fight happening, and sometimes I wonder why it can't occasionally be both? Why do these always have to be two separate concepts?)

Honestly even if I didn't ship anything in this fandom I'd feel the same way though. Like just delete these two characters from the universe entirely for a second, and my feelings stay the same. I'm really afraid Blizzard is going to pull something stereotypical and/or "straight male-gaze-y" and then act as if the rest of their otherwise quite diverse cast is otherwise completely 100% default straight. I think it would be a novel way to approach things by saying "some of the cast is LGBT" and then not confirming/denying who is or isn't. Not that it's something I'd want for EVERY franchise to do, but truthfully I think it's stopped a whole bunch of typical gamer "ew I'm not playing _____, they're a fag" type bullshit. It's been interesting to see a fandom develop where we know from the beginning that there's definitely 100% canon LGBT representation as confirmed by TPTB, but they weren't interested in spilling the beans (at first) as to which character(s) were said representation.

I'm not the only LGBT person that feels like this in the Overwatch fandom and I've seen a bunch of personal posts on my dash about it, but like I said, I know my reasons for not wanting this are partly selfish, even if I do feel that these two would be quite interesting in terms of representation for multiple reasons. Which is why this is a secret and not something I plan on saying outside the confines of a community specifically made for telling fandom secrets.

"Not that it's something I'd want for EVERY franchise to do, but truthfully I think it's stopped a whole bunch of typical gamer "ew I'm not playing _____, they're a fag" type bullshit."

No, they just apply it to Zarya.

OP again

Honestly I think that's mostly because Zarya's a masculine-coded woman. I don't think that would magically stop if she were confirmed to be the straightest straight lady to ever come outta Straightsville. I'm thinking it's less about her perceived sexuality and more about her perceived gender presentation. They're uncomfortable with her because she's a muscular lady who looks like she could break them, and that doesn't make their genitals tingle so therefore she's a bad character in their minds.

If anything I'd just picture the jokes getting even cruder if she were "confirmed straight". Instead of the "hurrdurr butch lesbian" stereotype it's going to be "I bet she loves to dominate the shit out of her men, she probably only likes wimpy little cucks who let her peg them while they crossdress" type rhetoric. I've already seen a little of that unfortunately.

People are uncomfortable with characters that don't fit into a certain mold, and Zarya definitely qualifies.

None of it is right, but there is an absolute "boys club" thing going on where male characters being homo/bi-sexual get shit on way harder than female characters being homo/bi-sexual. I saw something like it firsthand in another gaming franchise of mine, where a male character was confirmed as bisexual and the fanbase threw a homophobic hoopla while meanwhile in the same game there were two female on female kisses and it wasn't even mentioned by the same guys flipping out about a "faggot" in their game. It's just another gross reminder of how female homosexuality has been branded as being "for men" and male homosexuality has been branded as "taboo". Neither is a good thing. :(

God, I am so glad I never hung out in the male-dominated sections of this fandom.

I don't know why I bother to be honest. Being LGBT means I have almost zero in common with the average straight white fanboy of Overwatch and even if I like some of the same things they do we certainly don't take the same approach to it, but I like to spread my fandom experience across multiple platforms and sometimes that means I encounter idiots. :( Sometimes the fandom isn't so bad and I've been surprised by the average straight white fanboy before in other fandoms when they've casually accepted canon homosexuality and/or fujobaiting with not even the bat of an eyelash (or sometimes even getting in on the fun), but Overwatch's non-LGBT male fanbase is kind of cancerous sometimes.

I get that. I've hung out in male dominated fan spaces before like for video games or manga, and even though they're not terrible 100% of the time, In the past I have seen some, "gay people are gross and creepy and should just go away!!1" mindsets and opinions and it does hurt. :T

I check in sometimes on http://jen-iii.tumblr.com/. She's mainly Steven Universe, but she also reblogs a lot of Overwatch content that isn't heterocentric.

I love these two together so much, their bond is one of the few poignant things in this series. I know there's no chance of Genyatta being canon, but at the very least, I hope they don't consider making Genji/Mercy canon (one of the staff members of the game ships the latter, which has me a little concerned).

OP

Oh bllllegghhh. I hate when staff have public shipping preferences solely because it always becomes a problem within fandom where some people use it as an "appeal to authority" type thing. (I hate it even when it's the ship that I happen to ship! I feel like it's used as an attempt to try and "shut down" certain ships.) Voltron fandom and Stephen Universe fandom don't exactly set a good precedent in this area.

Yeah, I know Genji/Zenyatta is a non-starter which upsets me both as a shipper and because I want more interesting characters representation wise, but I'm with you. Genji/Mercy being canon would suck, and yes, that I am saying that 100% as a butthurt shipper.

I can relate about Genyatta, OP. It's one of my OTPs and it's usually the one with the most lighthearted fic and art, so I like for when I want to chill out and read something cute and positive. I'd love to see them together as a couple because their bond is so precious, but I too have my doubts :(

At least the lead writer being into Genji/Mercy apparently won't impact the story... or so he says.

OP

Same, it's literally my go-to pairing for cute/sweet/happy/positive fic and art and I've found myself spending a stupid amount of money on commissions for a bunch of different Genyatta stuff just because they make me feel happy. It's going to suck on multiple levels because announcing who the LGBT characters are is going to start shipwar shit, it's going to bug the hell out of me that all the other characters are going to be presumed straight (because that's basically what Blizzard is saying), a bunch of ships are going to be shot down, not just Genyatta...

Ugh. I think this is the one time where I'd be more than happy with the writers being cagey about who is LGBT. They've already confirmed that there is LGBT representation there, I really don't need to know who it is tbh because I can already tell you I'm probably not going to like the answer. Blizzard has surprised me with their diverse Overwatch cast but I don't quite trust them not to fall into stereotypical "representation".

Yeah I'm really hoping he sticks with that, because Genji/Mercy just reminds me of those stereotypical romance novels I used to read as a teen tbh. "Broken man gets patched up by sexy doctor, will her healing luuuuuv reach him?" Sorry, I'll fully admit I'm more interested in how Zenyatta's relationship with Genji, it feels like the deepest bond between two characters in the entire franchise. I mean, crediting Zenyatta with helping Genji pull himself back from the brink is pretty heavy stuff.

~~It doesn't help that I think PharMercy is cute too, fuck. At the risk of sounding like tumblr: Just let everyone be queer damnit!~~

Question, where did you read that the lead writer says that him shipping Genji/Mercy won't impact the story? I'm terrible with keeping up with creator blogs and stuff and I'm curious what he said. :)

(Also more Genyatta fans on here! I knew there were a couple of us anon but no named users have chimed in before.)

Man, when shipping stuff actually starts happening in canon the fandom is gonna implode. I hate the straight=default thing but after being a fan of WoW for years before the release of Overwatch I can't say I'm surprised.

I dunno, I'm kind of personally getting slightly annoyed with their pussyfooting around the issue like sexuality has to be revealed in some huge way compared to like... their families, their jobs, their histories, etc. but that could just be me. And you're probably right to suspect them, I mean I love their games but I admit to having very little faith in them after the stuff they've pulled before with LGBT stuff.

Man, I can't find it now. It was on Twitter tho. I'm still looking, so I'll link it if I find it. I did find an instance of him saying people should be able to ship what they want when someone asked him about PharMercy.

(I tend to be really bad with remembering to check my DW... which kinda sucks because I love seeing OW on F!S)

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[ SECRET POST #3616 ]

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