fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #481 ]

[ SECRET POST #481 ]

⌈ Secret Post #481 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Uhhh, lots of people are submitting secrets to the actual secret posts/the suggestions post and not the submissions post -- the submission post is → here ←, make sure you're posting them in the right place!

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 127 secrets from Secret Submission Post #069.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - yes, it was totally personal ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - uh, fairly sure you worded this one wrong ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I hope I'm not misrepresenting my case here, but it wasn't my intention to point an accusitory finger at people who don't want to read into everything, that's not it at all. And before taking my film analysis classes, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly, but now I do think that, as one of my professors put it, 'there is no such thing as a film without an agenda'. That doesn't mean that all popular media is out to brainwash people into being sexist or racist or religious, but it means that movies and TV have messages that the filmmakers want to convey to the audience; some are overt and some are subtle or even unintentional. But films and TV are very carefully and consciously constructed to mold the viewer into being receptive to these ideas over the course of the viewing. It uses camera angles, lighting, blocking, costuming, music, visual cues, and scenery, among other things, to subtley work on the viewer to get them to identify with the main character and make them sympathetic to his or her situation and to come with them on their emotional journey/revalation so that the end is emotionally gratifying. When it's done well, we're unaware of the manipulation and we enjoy ourselves; when it's done clumsily, we become aware that we're being made to think a certain way, and the personal involvement with what's happening on the screen fades and we wish we were doing something else.

This is getting really long, but my basic point is this: we're saturated with TV and movies, we grow up on them, they become a part of our lives and help shape our self-identities-- Fandom Secrets is a perfect representation of how much of an influence media has on us. And yes, film and TV can be interpreted countless ways, and not every one is necessarily relevant or widely accepted, and it is very possible to read too much into the meaning behind something or to misinterpret it. But my point was that I do think it's important to be aware of how much of an influence media has on us and to be aware of the messages we're being presented with. You don't have to agree with them, or me, but I do think it's important to at least think about.

Ah, honestly? The only reason I have a problem with it is that it makes everything into Serious Business. I've known people who were completely anti-Disney due to supposed "stereotyping" (which could have been there, yes, but it's beside the point that I watched those movies as a kid and grew up just fine...?) and who thought that Firefly was completely and totally misogynistic due to the male/female line ratio and the fact that prostitution wasn't condemned as badbadwrongwrongdegradingtowomen. And that if people liked said things, they were part of the problem.

There's been messages mixed into storytelling since the beginning of culture, and messages are put into those stories in order to reflect the values and ideals of that culture. It's important to be aware of it because we need to be aware of our own culture -- I'm with you on that, but when people take it to such an extreme that at the end of a long day, they can't sit down and watch something without analyzing it to death or being offended at something that the creators might not have even put any thought at all into? I think that's when it's kind of a problem. If a person wants to do that, then it's not my place to tell them to stop, but it just kind of peeves me when it's all they'll focus on when you're all like "Hey! Hey dude, watch this show with me, I think you'll like it! It's funny!" and then they get all mad at you for enjoying it because of all the things they're picking up on.

But ah, that got seriously tl;dr, and this goes without saying that I hardly believe that all people who analyze media are like that. It's the vocal minority that gives the majority a bad name.

Ahhh, yes, I totally agree with you. I think awareness is important, but I don't think it's necessary to read into every little thing and become so hyper-aware of possible agendas that it becomes impossible to enjoy anything. That defeats the whole purpose of having entertainment media at all and makes you no fun to be around. That's why I'm afraid of broaching the topic with even a show like "Utena", which is incomprehensible without interpretation of symbolism, because I'm afraid of being labled as the sort of person that reads too much into things. I'm not, and I'm perfectly happy to switch my brain off and enjoy something for enjoyment's sake. I own a copy of "Zoolander" for crying out loud, I can't be that stuffy. ;)

(And I also grew up on Disney, and still enjoy some of it, and loved "Firefly" to pieces. Just for the record.)

I think it's good to keep it in mind and definitely try to make people aware of it, just not in an obnoxious, shoving-it-in-your-face sort of way, because then people are just all like "... dude, don't watch movies with him/her. They'll dissect it all the way through." But oh man, I love looking at symbolism and such. It's neat to see the little things that creators put in to see if people are paying attention. Symbolic series are fun for me because it gives my brain a bit of a workout. But trying to analyze something like Dude, Where's My Car just makes me sad. Which I'll admit is a huge guilty pleasure of mine. "No, dude. They're OSTRICHES." But yeah tl;dr -- you can't go sticking your head in the sand because then nothing's going to get changed. But it's okay to have fun and yeah I think we pretty much agree, so why do I keep talking? XD

(Huge Disney fangirl here ^^' I love my princesses [Especially Jasmine!], and The Sword in the Stone remains one of my favorite to this day (: Firefly, I'm still trying to get my hands on because I liked Serenity quite a lot and heard that the series was exponentially better)

I see a lot of drama caused by the assumption that, if some text contains sexism, racism, etc, that text must be condemned and discarded. (It's why every discussion of pornography collapses into a discussion of censorship after about two minutes.)

Both the folks who are analysing the politics, and folks who are just there for the fun, can fall into this assumption. The former refuse to acknowledge anything the show/film/book might be doing right; the latter refuse to acknowledge anything it might be doing wrong.

Both sets of people are mistaken. It's possible to acknowledge the sexism in a TV show or whatever while also acknowledging its redeeming virtues - it doesn't have to be all or nothing, condemn or worship. For example, I quite enjoy watching old "James Bond" flicks with the husband; I just take the piss out of the misogyny while I'm doing it.

I see a lot of drama caused by the assumption that, if some text contains sexism, racism, etc, that text must be condemned and discarded.

I've seen people who think like this and it unnerves me. It's that sort of attitude that got Greek libraries burnt and lost many classics due to the fact that said classics had secular ideas.

It's possible to acknowledge the sexism in a TV show or whatever while also acknowledging its redeeming virtues

Oh, I tend to be all for discussing the elements that I really thought could have been done better (just not during the movie, hah). For example, it annoyed me quite a bit in The Forbidden Kingdom, which just came out, how the women really didn't do anything useful at all. It wasn't even done so that they could at least fight each other on even terms. The males had to come on over and finish the fight because they couldn't do it properly. My sister and I discussed this quite a lot as we walked out, but we also thought that it was an enjoyable movie, and discussed how that was a cultural element that's very prevalent in movies of that type. Bear in mind that we're both fans of cheesy martial arts movies ;D

At the same time, though, the people I'm referring to are the types that can't look through a magazine without flipping out over how sexist a vodka ad is for having a female silhouette in the background. Trustory, my Sociology 101 professor was like that way back when (so glad to be out of that class!). Drove me crazy because I was pretty convinced that they woman had forgotten how to have any fun in life. Most of the men in her class were scared stiff of speaking up, seeing how badly she bashed on her husband.

Heh. I'm kind of like your prof. Once you start noticing sexism in the media, you start noticing how it gets in absolutely everywhere, blatantly and subtly. That can be crazy-making - you start thinking, "Can I just take the *&^%*&^ bus to work without having this crap thrown at me?!"

But I think that only reinforces how important it is to acknowledge when a text does something right for a change. I don't mean we have to throw a movie a ticker parade just for not being sexist or whatever - just that we should notice. Otherwise we're just going to drown in the bad stuff.

Ahhh see I'm one of those people who tend to selectively filter it out. When I feel intellectual or like ranting about society and how it objectifies women, I'll just tear into something. Usually fashion shows or fashion magazines, since my particular peeve is anorexia and unhealthy portrayals of women's bodies. Of course, I'm speaking as a girl who has a male pin-up calendar in her room, so perhaps I'm not the best person to be talking about it. ;D

I don't think that we're ever going to find "perfect" films/books/shows, but I do believe that they can be improved lots. Just once I'd like to see a lovely lady (or possibly a cute, klutzy librarian chick who just happened to be in the right place at the right time!) save the day with the power of wit, cunning, and possibly a dash of snark without having to strip naked/seduce someone/pose sexily with a machine gun to pull it off.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #481 ]

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