fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3651 ]

[ SECRET POST #3651 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3651 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 52 secrets from Secret Submission Post #522.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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07. https://68.media.tumblr.com/8f1509445c9d344fec2693368064eea0/tumblr_oipq8c9kXw1te6hzno2_1280.png

"non-binary"

ambiguous gender open to interpretation and not acknowledged in canon is not the same as explicitly non-binary

cis girl frisk is just as valid non-binary frisk imo

also frisk being ambiguously brown just confirms it to me that frisk was meant for self inserting

it's a cop-out form of representation: cover all your bases but have just enough plausible deniable that you don't have to commit

Maybe Frisk was really about self-inserting rather than being about representation? After all, it's a video game about monsters.

Agreed.

I'm playing Boy frisk.

This pretty much sums up everything I was going to say.

>why else would Frisk ALWAYS be shown as a cis girl

Idk about this one, as a guy I can't imagine Frisk as a guy. I can't put my finger on what it was, but something about how the world and everyone in it reacted to and/or treated Frisk made me think they were a tomboy cis girl or an nb-female person of some kind. So I couldn't self-insert if I tried.

And now I'm wondering, are the majority of Frisk arts and fanons female? Do you think it's because fandom is predominantly female and they're all self inserting, or because something about how everyone else reacted signalled female-of-some-sort to more people than not?

Thinking more on it, I remember thinking it'd surprise me if Frisk were a cis guy because their gender was such a non issue. A cis girl or nb female-bodied person dressing in a-gender clothing and going by "they" is going to get almost no reaction from most people, while a cis guy or nb-male-bodied person wearing their hair long and going by "they" is bound to get a "oh, you're a guy" reaction once in a while, and it never happened. In the same way that a boy wearing a dress is going to get a lot more odd looks than a girl wearing shorts and a baseball cap.

You could handwave it as "monsters don't do genders like humans," I guess. But that's the part that stuck with me.

But I don't think Frisk goes by "they" in that like, that's their preferred pronoun that they asked to be called by. The real reason for "they" is probably because programming the text with "they" was simpler than having the player choose which pronoun to be called throughout the game. And storywise it works because the other characters probably can't tell human gender by looking so they used "they" and Frisk didn't notice or care. Frisk hardly seemed to care about anyone calling them by their own name, so it's not too likely they're particular about pronouns.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-01-02 04:49 (UTC) - Expand

Man, the times must have changed since I've been out of the Undertale fandom. (Or maybe you don't do fandom on Tumblr?) I remember nothing but constant accusations of pedophilia if you shipped these two-even if you aged Frisk up...yes, even if you aged Frisk up to an adult you were still a pedophile.

Also, what someone else above me say; are they actually non-binary? Like for real, did the creator say that? Otherwise, yeah, up to interpretation I'd say...

Nope. They're just meant to be "ambiguous". Meaning it's supposed to be unclear whether or not the sprite is male or female or any other gender identity/presentation.

Despite all that, it definitely read as female to me. Possibly the hair choice is actually just more female coded to most people than was really intended.

Oh the paedo panic has emigrated to various other fandoms.

Did you know adult junkrat and old man roadhog is Paedophilia? Ether because of the age difference, or because of people in fandom wanting to feel like they have a good reason to be shitty to each other.

LOL I remember the pedo panic. I follow a NSFW artist who did some GORGEOUS smut works with an adult!Frisk (she was also a big girl) with both Sans and Papyrus. I never played the game, but they were very nice and I shipped it, mainly out of spite against the anti crowds. Of course, it's the same kind of bullshit I've faced for years for daring to ship Kakashi/Sakura and the majority of my ships, all of which has followed me out of my OWN teen years.

Yeah, sure, I really believe you're a non-binary person upset about erasure~

As a true tumblr nb, OP probably feels very strongly about her imagined persecution despite not actually facing any in her real life.
Everything for that special "I'm totally not privileged" feeling.

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(Anonymous) - 2017-01-01 23:28 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-01-02 01:01 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-01-02 01:25 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-01-02 02:22 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-01-02 17:42 (UTC) - Expand

Disregarding insensitive comments, I dont ship myself or self insert as it's awkward for me, but as someone who was nonbinary/dysphoric during the time undertale came out, I could admit that human characters either have female or male parts, or both, so girls and boys were going to take advantage of the ambiguity and self insert into the ambiguous character, it's only natural for someone to project and relate to someone/something (although i feel there's a certain level to how unhealthy that projecting can go though, e.g. possessive fictionkin etc).

However, I feel like the creator didn't actually take into consideration that nonbinary was a label for dysphoric people and when I played it I just felt like it had just been used to describe the character /because/ of the self insertion factor. This frustrated me more than the shipping. I don't know if you had noticed this feeling too.

(Please don't feel frustrated after reading this as I know from submitting secrets myself that even my defenses can get high, I mean well and I'm not trying to argue, but level instead)

nonbinary isnt a label for dysphoric people, it's just a label for people who feel they aren't specifically one or the other gender

Frisk is canon NB? I thought it was purposefully ambiguous.

At least it's not as bad as Sans/Toriel. Yuck.

Frisk is probably my least favorite character from the game since every time I look at them I think "Dora the Explorer." I cannot see them as a self-insert for myself due to that. Some fanart I've seen make Frisk into a boy of undetermined Asian origin, and honestly that's probably the only interpretation I'm ok with. Chara, on the other hand, I definitely see as female.

Sans himself has always given me an asexual vibe (I'm ace myself) so it's kind of weird to see so many preteen girls wanting him. If I was Toby I'd probably be a little disappointed things went this way, especially since Sans is such a deep character.

I mean, I'm nb but I definitely don't think Frisk is canonically nb? They're left ambiguous to let people step into their shoes. And wow people are using a blank-slate character you're meant to insert yourself into to self-ship with an NPC character?? Get outta town.

Yeah the character was designed to be self insert. I mean, that's actually sorta the meta-plot of the game. You, the player, are controlling this being and choosing what they do.

I dunno, the only Sans/Frisk shipping I've seen has a feminine Frisk (with longer hair and breasts when they're an adult) but still refers to them in NB terms, I feel like that's valid? Feminine nonbinary people do exist after all.

Like others in this thread I'm not 100% convinced that Frisk is supposed to be canon nonbinary instead of just "ambiguous" but I seem to remember hearing that it was confirmed by Temmie Chang, does anyone have a source for that?

(I do think Chara is canon nonbinary though, partly because you can explain away references to Frisk as "they" with "monsters aren't good at human gender" or "player avatar", but Chara is referred to as "they" by Asriel, who knew them better than anyone else. That to me says that's their actual preferred pronoun.)

The PC is a fucking child who isn't dressed in any kind of way to state a gender so the PC can live through them. That doesn't make the character a true "non-binary." That makes the PC character a template. So making Frisk a boy or a girl in fanart is fine and erases NOTHING.

I haven't read the comments yet but I already know this thread is gonna be a shitshow.

Anyways I don't ship Frisk with anyone bc they're like, ten years old. Ew.

I haven't played Undertale and I know nothing about the characters, but I always assumed that the player character is a reference to Yume Nikki and therefore a girl.

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