fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #485 ]

[ SECRET POST #485 ]

⌈ Secret Post #485 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 366 secrets from Secret Submission Post #070.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Are you serious? Did I miss when "comfortable with who you are" became "comfortable with yourself and non-consenting others"? Even if it's not the OP it happened to, it still happened to someone.

Let me re-phrase that to : Get over John Barrowman doing it to other people that are not you.

And honestly, I hardly think he's pinning people down and saying: 'hold it or die'

That's just plain ridiculous to equate it to being the same thing, "comfortable with yourself and non-consenting others" Riiight, I'm talking about JB here and not who-ever it was this person had an unpleasant experience with.

Get over John Barrowman doing it to other people that are not you.

No, sorry. If some creepy old dude flashes a girl on the street, or he gropes her, or he rubs against her sexually, are you seriously going to tell me that I should just "get over it" and not be the least bit worried about it, just because it's not me? Sexual harassment/assault is what it is, it doesn't matter who it's being done to.

Riiight, I'm talking about JB here and not who-ever it was this person had an unpleasant experience with.

I don't really get what you're saying. If someone involves another person against their consent, that person deserves to be given consideration. They're not an inanimate object for people to use for their own ends or in order to be "comfortable with themselves."

Jesus, I sure hope you don't have this attitude towards rape victims.

So, wait you're saying JB goes round doing it to people who 'don't' know who the hell he is. Because the quote is taken out of context.

*rolls eyes* Because an actor is going to go round doing that isn't he? This is just being stupid about it, there's a difference between doing it to someone you know and doing it to a random stranger. Dude seriously, how can you even EQUATE it with rape? It's just a friend fooling around, he's not about to march down the street flashing random people it's laughable idea. IT'S JOHN BARROWMAN.

Do go off the subject why don't you? *laughs*

So, wait you're saying JB goes round doing it to people who 'don't' know who the hell he is. Because the quote is taken out of context.

Whether or not they know who he is doesn't matter. If you're saying he's doing it to close friends who have told him they don't have a problem with it, that's one thing. I'll admit that I know very little about him and I don't know where that quote is from. If you are talking about John Barrowman specifically and that he does this (and can provide the entire quote), then we've had a big misunderstanding.

However, my issue isn't so much with him as it is with your statement that people shouldn't get upset about it as long as he's not doing it to them.

*rolls eyes* Because an actor is going to go round doing that isn't he? ... IT'S JOHN BARROWMAN.

I'm not saying he does that, but I don't think you can dismiss a lot of things just by the fact that they're an actor. Actors get away with a lot. I really don't care who it is.

Do go off the subject why don't you? *laughs*

It's not off the subject. Where I am talking about the behavior and not John Barrowman specifically, it's hardly a stretch.

Which is why it's laughable, he's John Barrowman, and you can't argue it because you honestly don't know what he's like, and for god sakes it is making me laugh. Which is why the secret is so ridiculous in the first place because as a person he's so wonderfully open about anything and everything sexual, if you'd actually read anything about him I really doubt you'd be arguing at all. Which is why this secret strikes me as ridiculous because he always goes on about how important being comfortable with sexuality is - not in an imposing way either.

And he's not doing it to this poster, he has the guts to do that:

What? No seriously, WHAT? Just don't watch him then, don't read anything he's written - you can't argue this I'm sorry because you have to understand what he's like first, and obviously the image you have is just... wrong.

And no no, don't turn something into a personal attack because by that not only are you going off track but you're also losing the argument, try to keep on topic lovely.

Instead of laughing about how ridiculous it is, perhaps you could have done a bit to explain similar things he's done, the relationship of the cast, etc.

What? No seriously, WHAT? Just don't watch him then, don't read anything he's written - you can't argue this I'm sorry because you have to understand what he's like first, and obviously the image you have is just... wrong.

Re-read what I said. My problem was the overall statement that you shouldn't care about something just because it's not happening to you.

This (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/155582.html?thread=52804286#t52804286) comment was a lot more helpful, and I now think the quote in the OP does come off as worse than it actually is (although it still rubs me the wrong way), but I hope you can understand why people would be upset at this, rather than just passing it off as "YOU DON'T KNOW HIM."

Honey, next time you argue with someone, know what you're arguing first.

Family full of lawyers, just a little tip for you okay? x3

I believe I already said that I Googled it and nothing turned up. It certainly wasn't for lack of trying, and you can't expect someone to go through a crash course in a fandom for something they couldn't have foreseen was possibly out of context.

Don't be so condescending, as you're in no position to be. Just a little tip, okay?

FWIW, I completely agree with you.

Re: 59

likespring.livejournal.com - 2008-05-05 00:41 (UTC) - Expand

Then don't argue for something you don't know anything about, rule no. 1, otherwise you will look stupid. How on earth would you know where anyone was coming from?

The condescending tip would be a nice touch if I hadn't already said the same thing, see now it just looks like you're copying me, and that's not really very original, and to be frank, look a little sad. ):

Re: 59

likespring.livejournal.com - 2008-05-05 00:40 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-05-05 00:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

likespring.livejournal.com - 2008-05-05 00:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-05-05 01:02 (UTC) - Expand

Wow, somebody missed their coffee time this morning, huh? No need to be so condescending to someone who was just trying to have an intelligent conversation.

I think your arguments were sub-par, and you have much less of an intimidating presence when you're afraid to post logged in. Afraid of backlash?

I know what LJ is like, although no I'm not afraid of arguments now you've put it so bluntly. It's also hard to remain well mannered when someone doesn't know what they're talking about, and yet still insists they're right. *shrugs*

No, sorry. If some creepy old dude flashes a girl on the street, or he gropes her, or he rubs against her sexually, are you seriously going to tell me that I should just "get over it" and not be the least bit worried about it, just because it's not me? Sexual harassment/assault is what it is, it doesn't matter who it's being done to.

Yes, because JB is "some creepy old dude", he was pulling a practical joke around people who he is familiar with, who know of his personality, ADULTS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.I don't think pulling out your peen on set of an adult, sex themed show is the same as rape, but linking it is just FARFETCHED and immature in my opinion.

If the OP has such a big problem with it, they should GET SOME HELP, not go around using actors as scapegoats for their prudishness due to said molestation. Yup.

Jesus, I sure hope you don't have this attitude towards rape victims.

Ooooh, almost as out of context as the OP'S ACTUAL SECRET. Lulz.
God I'm so sick of SUCH AND SUCH REMINDS ME OF WHO I WAS MOLESTED BY secrets

Yes, because JB is "some creepy old dude", he was pulling a practical joke around people who he is familiar with, who know of his personality, ADULTS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.

If you can provide the entire quote that proves this is what happened, I'll accept that. I tried Googling for the full quote but nothing turned up, and so as I know nothing about John Barrowman, I could only take the quote and secret as it was.

Real nice flippant attitude there, though.

Oh dear, you don't actually know anything about him do you? There you are protesting that I'm flippant because I disregard this secret as anything less than wank-sprouting-baby-grow (and lo, here we are), but you're doing exactly the same, and the OP is, if they don't know anything about him either. You're being flippant about him, and his personality.

But as the anon above said. You'll learn not to lunge into aguments you have no idea about next time, wont you.

Oh, please.

First, my major problem was not what was actually in the secret, but in the first anon's response of "Get over it." I had previously mentioned that I knew nothing about him. If it was really out of context, the first anon certainly made no mention of that and accepted the premise that this is what John Barrowman did.

And as I said to the other anon, you can't expect someone to go through a crash course in a fandom just to respond to something that they had know way of foreseeing was possibly out of context.

This is such a self defeating circle.

A person cannot argue in Latin if they don't know how to speak the language - what I'm saying in my original post would be clear to someone who either watched Doctor Who, Torchwood, or anything John Barrowman had been in.

Its just hypocritical - one doesn't argue politics or certainly a touchy subject in which you imply I don't care about rape victims (which by the way was a very nasty thing to say, thanks and immature) and not look up the whole thing first. That's just... well, stupid.

If you insist. As I've repeated multiple times, the major issue for me was not John Barrowman and that quote itself but the statement that we should just "get over it" (in which, by the way, you accepted the premise of the secret and didn't bother to correct it).

Then honestly, why are you still arguing it?

The fact of the matter is, that that's not the point. The fact of the matter is, after I explained that you what I can only describe as 'tried to dig yourself out' which you haven't done very well, tbh. And we've both agreed that the full quote is very much different from the secret poster has implied, therefore rendering your earlier statement, well, irrelevant.

Re: 59 - the first anon

likespring.livejournal.com - 2008-05-05 12:42 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59 - the first anon

(Anonymous) - 2008-05-05 13:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59 - the first anon

likespring.livejournal.com - 2008-05-05 14:01 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59 - the first anon

(Anonymous) - 2008-05-05 14:13 (UTC) - Expand

I do watch Doctor Who :) and I still don't agree with you.

FYI.

Re: 59 - the first anon

(Anonymous) - 2008-05-05 01:00 (UTC) - Expand

Geez, I was just about to say all this. Thank god there's another sane person out there.

They're not an inanimate object for people to use for their own ends or in order to be "comfortable with themselves."

Exactly. You can be comfortable with yourself, but everyone has different comfort levels. I don't even like it when people touch me, period. Friends, family, what have you. It just makes me uncomfortable. And I do admire John for being open about who he is, and not afraid to be gay, but that kind of thing crosses the line. I guess it all depends on whether or not he's absolutely sure these friends of his think it's funny or not.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! Us sane folks need to stick together. :)

I just saw this thread. Thank you so much for saying all of this. It's frightening how many people think unwanted contact is okay.

It's no problem at all. :)

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