fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3676 ]

[ SECRET POST #3676 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3676 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #525.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Not going to lie, I haven't really watched any anime for about ten years because every time someone recommended their OMG So Awesome series I'd try a few episodes and go 'meh.' I tried Yuri on Ice figuring it would go the same way, and I genuinely enjoyed it and watched through it all. So not going to debate if it's ~groundbreaking~ or not but that's my two cents.

I'll give it the "groundbreaking" headnod for the fact that it has canon gay characters that are not in a specifically Boy Love title or there for queerbaiting and/or comic relief. And on top of that it is a really nice, enjoyable show.

That's not groundbreaking. Shows like Evangelion, Samurai Flamenco, Shin Sekai Yori, Terra e, Tiger & Bunny, No6... did it before.

"Tiger & Bunny"

Don't use fanon to make your arguments, please. As for the rest, Evangelion's only canon because of Word of God, Samurai Flamenco is no homo because of Word of God and if you ignore that, was only canon in the last half of the last episode. And that's the difference with most of the other examples you could name. The relationship isn't canon until the very end. And another thing, they're almost all fantasy or sci fi, unrealistic settings where people have an easier time accepting "abnormal" relationships. Yuri on Ice is the only anime (that isn't yaoi) I know of that has a fairly realistic setting and has the relationship as an established fact midseries instead of being an end goal.

Read some interviews with the T&B staff, they said the romantic interpretation is as valid as the friendship one.

"Evangelion's only canon because of Word of God"

...Did you watch the show? Both Kaworu and Shinji said they loved the other. Also Shinji says in the movie that Kaworu represents love for him. And he says he's in love with Kaworu in the manga. Far more explicit that YoI with its ambiguous kisses and ambiguous goodluck charms proposals.

"Samurai Flamenco is no homo because of Word of God "

If show says A and staff says B, I'm gonna take the text on the actual canon over interviews. And show says that Masayoshi proposed to Goto and is in love with him. "-No homo I swear" staff can go fuck themselves.

Read some interviews with the T&B staff, they said the romantic interpretation is as valid as the friendship one.

It can be canon if you want it to be doesn't make it canon. They didn't commit to it.

Far more explicit that YoI with its ambiguous kisses and ambiguous goodluck charms proposals.

Yuuri and Victor are like, constantly going on about how they represent love to each other and talking about love for each other all that jazz. Are you kidding me? So they've got all that Shinji and Kaworu stuff PLUS the 'ambiguous' good luck charms (which Victor outright says are engagement rings) and 'ambiguous' making out in front of an international audience which isn't ambiguous at all.

And show says that Masayoshi proposed to Goto and is in love with him. "-No homo I swear" staff can go fuck themselves.

I tend to agree with this, but it does tarnish it being proper representation when the staff shits on it and backpedals.

Oh my God, you're going to say Yuuri and Victor are canon but argue that everyone else listed isn't??

They were nothing but a cop-out, a freakin' cop out, everything was ambiguous as and left up to interpretation and even Kubo herself couldn't commit and said that the kiss could be left up to interpretation too, ugh!!

This is what grates me most about this stupid fandom, they set YOI on a pedestal it doesn't deserve and kick absolutely everything else down as not being anywhere near as good when it comes to representation. It's infuriating.

Never said Kawoshin wasn't canon. Of course it is. So are a few others on that list.

I'll bite-

Evangelion- Tragic and dead
Shin Sekai Yori- Tragic and not endgame. In fact, endgame is het.
Terra E- Tragic and dead
Tiger and Bunny- Not canon so shouldn't even be listed (although yes very subtexty)
No. 6- Canon, but parted ways
Samurai Flamenco- This show is the love of my life and one of my favorite anime ever, but let's not pretend the creators didn't shirk away from the relationship in interviews and try to no homo it, and yes it may have been because they were bitter about how badly the show sold, but it still happened.

Yuri on Ice on the other hand- Pairing literally canon 2/3 of the way through the series, leaving essentially several episodes with them in a clear relationship. Happy ending with them engaged, which is very rare. Writers of the series talk positively about their relationship in interviews, speak about how they could not think about separating them.

I'm not saying some of those above shows aren't important in their own right, but they almost all fall into some rather tired and mostly tragic tropes. It's far less common to have a show like YOI; which is essentially just a sweet, happy romance that happens to be between two men. Yes, it actually is quite groundbreaking. There's more to it being a big deal than the fact that it's canon gay.

"Yuri on Ice on the other hand- Pairing literally canon 2/3 of the way through the series, leaving essentially several episodes with them in a clear relationship. "

Except Kubo confirmed in a post-show interview that the guys aren't together (yet), which makes a lot of sense when watching certain scenes. They are two guys who are obviously in love and have a deep relationship but are not a couple yet.

Uh, link? Because this must be a post-series interview I haven't read, and I've kept pretty up to date on them.

The Spoon interview, when she was talking about couples.

勇利とヴィクトルもああいった感じですし

Wait you mean the passage where she talks about how Yurio is surrounded by couples and she says that Yuuri and Victor act the way they do around him? How are you getting 'they're not in a relationship' from that?

Kubo: It sure feels like couples just keep popping up around Yurio. (laughs) It even feels like Yakov and Lilia might get back together. I'm not saying Lilia&Yakov WILL get back together, but it feels that way. (laughs) Then there's Viktor and Yuri, acting the way they do. And Mila's kinda starting to be into Otabek. So it's kinda like, "Please don't forget about Yurio, everyone!" (laughs).

What????

Edited 2017-01-27 05:26 (UTC)

She says that they act/feel like a couple. A friend of mine who knows Japanese told me that another translation would be "they give a couple-ish vibe". That's not something you say of people who are an item.

Plus it's pretty obvious watching the show that they aren't together.

You are really reaching with this one.

Your friend is wrong. It does not say that. She just said Victor and Yuuri act the way they do/give off the feeling they do and left it at that. I was just talking to a friend myself who is a Japanese speaker (who has not watched the show mind, so she's objective), and she said she's very confused as to how you're reading it as anything beyond her listing off people around Yurio who seem like/or are couples (or in Mila's case, people who have feelings for someone).

Not to mention both of the people who actually translated the interview made no note of this being a thing, and the one who did provide commentary on their translation, seemed to view it as confirmation of their status as a couple, if anything.

They literally go on dates and kiss multiple times in different manners and get engaged and Victor talks about marrying him openly in public twice (and Yuuri doesn't object). I'm not sure how it's obvious they aren't together. It's frankly a little absurd to write two people acting like that and them not be a couple.

Edited 2017-01-27 06:14 (UTC)

so is the word of god valid or not? you can't have cake and eat it too.

honestly, i don't care what the Word of God is. if the series fails to show me if a couple is a couple (het, BL, GL), then that series failed.

Yes, exactly. I could clearly see all the weird romantic symbols being thrown at Victor and Yuuri, without ever getting to see a supposed romance happening. They kissed?? Maybe?????? Well it's deniable, as the fandom well proved by having to re-trace their body positions in order to convince themselves and blow up over a tweet from the writers maybe confirming it (and ignoring how she later came out and said that it's "up for interpretation"). And if this gigantic thing happened between them, then why the hell didn't anyone ever mention it again, EVER? They're engaged? Uh, no, one of them picked a weirdass kind of good luck-charm and went BUT NOHOMO THO when people mistook it for what it looked like. Again: Why don't they ever talk about this "engagement"? When they have entire scenes discussing their future together, how come the thing that's surely the most important part isn't brought. up. at. all?

Because it didn't happen, because it was exactly what they SAID that it was, and it makes perfect sense that it never was anything more than *winkwinknudgenudge* fanservice when you look at how lovingly they animated Victor's shiny butt and sparkly tears.

If it's canon, then please tell me: At what point did they get together? How come the anime doesn't ever, EVER, talk about this fact except for in comedy where it's instantly denied? And why, for god's sake, didn't Yuuri kiss Victor in the final episode when it was pretty goddamn obvious what he was asking for?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-01-28 08:20 (UTC) - Expand

I honestly am not even sure what you're saying at this point. You don't need any interviews to show that Victor and Yuuri are a couple, just the show itself. But if you want interviews, I'd recommend the recent one with the Mappa producer where he outright talks about episode ten being the culmination of writing a romantic relationship between the two.

And the anon below has to essentially deliberately twist scenes to argue that they no homo'd it. Gosh the YOI salt squad or whatever you're calling yourselves these days are really in deep.

below anon

(Anonymous) - 2017-01-28 10:37 (UTC) - Expand

" kiss multiple times"

More like once, and it's an offscreen ambiguous kiss so you can't even prove that it happened. Jesus, you YoI are full delusional mode.

(no subject)

iggy - 2017-01-27 20:50 (UTC) - Expand

Can you read Japanese?. No. Then STFU and stop talking for others. They give a couple vibe is the literal translation. Source: my 7 years studying Japanese and my one year stay in Japan.

(no subject)

iggy - 2017-01-28 19:43 (UTC) - Expand

"Yuri and Victor are also feeling like that."

lmfao u fucked up dude that literally means they're acting as they do (and in the context, that is acting as a couple, as they are).

The context means that they're behaving the way they always do, or in common vernacular, "And then Yuuri and Victor are over there doing their thing, you know them."

That's a couple.

Eva = character died, Samumenco = one-sided doesn't make it love, dunno about the next two, TaiBani = moving on, are you even trying? And no.6 = the characters split up and never acted on any feelings beyond a goodbye kiss (kiss of promise my ass).

So yeah, building up a relationship, painstakingly so, with humor and grace and overcoming trials together and showing fights and making up? And having them stay together, literally engaged to be married at the end?

Point me to another series that does that--you'll be hard pressed to do so even if I don't remind you that you ought to stick to non-BL series.

"you ought to stick to non-BL series."

Why? What's the difference between YoI and a BL original anime like, let's say, the Kono Danshi series? Both are the same exploitative shit aimed at fujoshi.

Actually, Kono Danshi is more respectful and doesn't use the gay romance as fanservice.

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