[ SECRET POST #3685 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3685 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 42 secrets from Secret Submission Post #527.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

BL it's just a label, why does it matter? And YoI is an honorary BL anyways, a story written by a woman and aimed at women, a fantasy that fetishizes m/m relationships for fujoshi. How is that different from BL?

[(Anonymous)]

It's a huge matter of distribution/getting a studio to pick it up. Japan as a whole is still pretty homophobic and while a lot of people keep pretending that BL as a genre is just ~everywhere~, it's actually still a niche genre that's usually only published under the BL label.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, this, for one, and the show definitely got more funding than a BL anime would've gotten. BL anime work with tiny, tiny budgets.

It also means Yuri on Ice got a lot more mainstream publicity and didn't have to feed the typical yaoi tropes (not saying all BL does, but the tropes exist for a reason, they sell. Yuri and Victor got to sidestep the obligatory sexual harassment/rape scenes, and blushing and grumbling about being attracted to a guy for the sake of avoiding any suggestion that the characters are actually gay, heaven forbid). As a sports anime, Yuri on Ice also gets to reach a much larger audience, and people who aren't interested in BL will still watch and potentially enjoy it.

[(Anonymous)]

But regarding the content of the show, where are the differences? It's the same shit.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt - BL shows are, by definition, romance genre - so the plot IS the romance, and any other plot elements are more of a backdrop made to support said romance. Yuri on Ice has romance, but its plot is not centered on romance. It's really not "the same shit".

[(Anonymous)]

MOST BL are romance, but not all of them. The Kono Danshi series and Wild Adapter say hi.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT
Wild Adapter is about as clearly romancy as YoI. I love WA. But one of the reasons it was dropped by the BL publisher it was published by was that it didn't have enough BL.

[(Anonymous)]

What the other anon said. Also: The fact that you don't get where the difference lies shows that you have no damn clue what you are talking about.

[(Anonymous)]

Or maybe I've read actual BL manga and know that there are lots of them with a plot that is not the romance instead of having YOI as my first omgsogay anime like you have.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok so you really are too stupid or ignorant to understand the point. I give up. You very obviously have not even the slightest clue about how the BL genre and publishing work in Japan.

[(Anonymous)]

Where in the world is the m/m relationship fetishized? That's a claim you're going to have to back up. As a gay person, I find it really fucking offensive that you seem to be claiming the mere fact that it contained a gay relationship is fetishizing.

By the way, it's a sports anime, not a shoujo. It's not deliberately aimed at either gender.

da

[(Anonymous)]

I'd argue that there isn't an m/m relationship present to fetishize at all, but the amount of fanservice is still ridiculous. It's about as subtle about its target group as Free was.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

That very premise is offensive. Any time an anime features a gay couple, or even just homoerotic subtext, it's just "fanservice" and "not canon", no matter how romantically they are portrayed. People said the same damn thing about No. 6, and their kiss wasn't even obscured by a hug.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

I'm talking about the naked butts, the barely obscured full-body shots in the hot springs, the shining lips, the lovingly detailed beefcake, the bishie design in general and sure, while we're already at it, Victor's ridiculously sparkly tears.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

I don't agree that showing off athletic male bodies is inherently exploitation, especially if it's in-character and serves a purpose in plot. In the case of naked Victor, he's on display for Yuri himself more than the audience. After the flashback scene with the dance-off, it's pretty clear Victor's come to Japan expecting to have a flirtatious relationship with Yuri, so it makes sense in-character, and there's nothing inherently wrong with a character who is comfortable naked in situations where it is perfectly reasonable to be naked.

I would hardly call this gay exploitation unless there was literally an unnecessary and graphic gay sex scene plopped in the middle of serious plot. And since I'm not really convinced exploitation of male bodies is a serious or oppressive problem in anime, or media in general, count me underwhelmed by your argument.

And bishie design? What, popular anime stylistic choices for young, athletic men is part of your critique, too? Look, I agree that the direction certainly was intentionally titillating for the audience, but that doesn't negate the relationship Yuri and Victor had, nor is it inherently a bad thing. Yuri's own Eros routine is meant to be deliberately tantalizing, and skate routines often are - does that make them "just fanservice" and thus invalid?

[(Anonymous)]

The mere fact that this is a fanservice show aimed at fujoshi means that it's treating the main relationship as fetish fuel. Compare the Victor/Yuuri relationship to Nezumi and Shion's, they look nothing alike. One is a fujoshi fanservice show, the other isn't.

"By the way, it's a sports anime, not a shoujo. It's not deliberately aimed at either gender."

That's not how it works. At all.

[(Anonymous)]

point to me where it's aimed at fujoshi since 1) it's not BL and 2) it's aimed at people who enjoy figure skating full stop.

[(Anonymous)]

Watch any scene with Victor and Yuuri. The merchandise. The BD covers. The official art. The interviews.

An anime doesn't need to be BL to be aimed at fujoshi, darling. In fact most fujoshi prefer non BL anime like sports, battle shounen or male idols shows.

[(Anonymous)]

The merchandise is clearly aimed at the fujoshi market. You honestly believe gay japanese guys are buying the majority of the merchandise?

If you do, you're either new to anime, or incredibly naive.

[(Anonymous)]

And Free was aimed at people who enjoy swimming.

[(Anonymous)]

Raise your standards. There is no difference in the way YOI portrays it's m/m relationship than any other fanservice anime. Victor was always doing fanservice-y things like getting up close to his face and other stuff that left Yuuri and those around him flustered. Yuuri himself has no motivation outside skating to seduce or impress Victor to the point none of his other relationships or his own character growth was of any importance.

It was aimed towards fujos since they usually love sports anime because of the mostly male characters yet most sports anime are not directed towards female audience until Free! which focused more on fanservice and drama. Same goes for YOI. Despite what fangirls say it was not trying to be progressive it was just trying to pander to the audience it knew it would gain.

[(Anonymous)]

I never said the show didn't have visuals deliberately intended to be sexy. I said I don't think it's a problem that it does. The fact that there is male sexuality in the series doesn't somehow erase the fact that Yuri and Victor have a romantic relationship. The tone of the series permits and encourages the sexuality; it's not like it's inappropriate or out of the blue. Yuri and Victor are still a couple. And if I, a gay person, can enjoy it, as well as actual Olympic skaters including actual gay figure skater Johnny Weir, then your high horse moralizing probably needs to fucking chill.

Yuuri himself has no motivation outside skating to seduce or impress Victor to the point none of his other relationships or his own character growth was of any importance.

Not true. Yuri's personal obstacle is very clearly portrayed as his anxiety and that he easily gives up. His growth and finding more confidence in skating directly result in him achieving his goal by improving as a skater and ultimately getting a silver medal. If Yuri's relationship with Victor was largely defined by skating, that's because the whole plot was defined by skating. It was a skating anime. The fact that it didn't break out further than that is okay; it's about professional skaters preparing for the ultimate competition, it's not a sin that their lives revolve around that during the course of the series.

It doesn't matter whether or not some level of success was guaranteed by female audiences. It really does not matter. It's still queer, and no, it isn't portrayed in a way that is in any shape or form exploitative, pornographic, or otherwise inappropriate. The relationship is only ever portrayed positively.

[(Anonymous)]

If you're satisfied with a fujobait series, good for you. But some people want actual representation. Some people are tired of their sexuality being used as a fantasy, of being reduced to fanservice and shlick material for fujoshi.

You must be deluded if you seriously believe YoI isn't explotative. It's a fanservice story written by a straight woman and aimed at straight women, it's as explotative as it gets. And that's why the Japanese LGBT community doesn't give a single shit about this anime. They recognize it as just another fujoshi anime.

[(Anonymous)]

Having some fanservice does not make something a fanservice anime you fudrucker.

Yuuri's and Victor's relationship grew OUTSIDE OF THOSE MOMENTS. In their talk on the beach, in their argument in the parking garage, in the exchange of their rings.

[(Anonymous)]

In the never mentioning their 'engagement' in their private talks.