Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2017-02-18 03:51 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2017-02-18 03:51 pm
[ SECRET POST #3699 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3699 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 42 secrets from Secret Submission Post #529.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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Oh, and I wasn't concern trolling. I am legitimately unconcerned by what you say or do to other people, but in order to explain myself I am pointing out that the natural reaction to being repeatedly insulted is that people will snap back. Deal with it. Or don't, but it's what you have to look forward to when you call people names.
If I wanted to continue this, and actually I could live with that, I'd ask you why "it's just a jooooooke haha stop being so offended" is bullshit, I know we don't agree on that, when you yourself admit that you know I don't mean what I say, why would what I say matter? Like, it's the meaning that makes the thing, isn't it? Like if I just started babbling a bunch of random syllables right now, and there came out two random noises that sounded, when put together, like a slur, would that still be offensive? Words are noise, it's the meaning that matters.
Erm, if you'll notice, the part where I got upset, the ONE part of this whole thing where the guy got upset was not after you criticized me as "annoying" you with the stupid joke, it was after you had repeatedly insulted me, and tried again to twist my words to make me out to be worse than I am.
""haha dumb feminists can't take a joke" - no, that's not what you said"
No, you're right, it's not what I said. It doesn't look, sound or smell like what I said. Trying to tie what I did say - which is nothing like that - to that with "it comes from the same logical and emotional place" is bullshit, and again mischaracterizing, and also assuming you know better about my logical and emotional processes than I do. And assuming you can use that knowledge of my logical and emotional processes to tie me to a moronic statement, presumably so that you can continue to feel justified for the unreasonable treatment you are dishing out.
So sorry, if you say things that I think are really dickish or act like a dick, I will call you a dick. That's me being blunt and it's not categorically any different than you being blunt, and from my perspective, you were the first person to be rude when you made a sexist joke."
That's not you being blunt. That is you being insulting, you can tell that from the insult in your comments. Directed at me. for making a joke about the sexism I was already being accused of. By doing deliberate mockery of sexism. For example, In my joke, who is the joke directed at? Who was the butt of it the joke? Me, the person acting like a sexist moron - that you admit I am not really like. Who is the butt of you're comment? Me again.
"I don't give a fuck what "kind of person you are""
Well I do. I also care that people, when I explain myself to them, do not twist what I say to make me sound worse, and then use the fact that they have made me sound worse to justify insulting me.
"I know almost nothing about you"
And yet what you do think you know about me comes through spectacularly clearly. you see a joke you deem sexist where I deliberately say something that sounds sexist, that you know I don't actually mean, and you assume I must be a sexist, and that keeps coming through over and over again in how you twist the things I am actually saying.
Oh, I think it's fairly clear we won't get along. And my response to this is to PLEASE ask you to stop seeing the world as "People who are worse than me who I can be unpleasant to, People who are might not be worse than me but if I squint and twist I can make look worse than me so I can be unpleasant to, and Me and the people I like for now." It is super unpleasant.
Oh, and you read my comment on how trumps comments might not necessarily be about sexual assault, and you head comes out with obviously the only thing that could possibly be: Me justifying Trump's sexual assault remarks. No, certainly no twisting of the facts there. Nope nope nope.
I swear there really is no point in trying to make you think any differently about me or anything else, is there. No matter what is actually said, you... You might actually be incapable of believing there is a truth that is not already fixed in stone in your own head.
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Well, it's a three day old post, what you still doing reading it if it's boring? You can jog on if you want. There's better thread up than this one.
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*Snuggles into you*
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But your kind always all the cops.
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As for the rest...I give up. This is just getting amazingly tiresome. Sexist jokes are not ok. There is no way to justify or explain away Trump's remarks about sexual assault and if you do, you're putting giving a massive shitstain (Trump) the benefit of the doubt over the comfort of every woman you interact with. You make a sexist joke or try to justify those remarks, and your intent doesn't really matter any more: you're being a jerk. There just isn't much more to say and I'm not going to stop thinking that about those things.
I would have been ready to give you the benefit of the doubt about the smugness but I cannot deal with the sexism.
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Yeah, it's not fun when someone misinterprets what you're saying, then uses that to paint you in an unfair way. And if I am misunderstanding what you are doing when you repeatedly twist me words into things I didn't say, or when you try to claim what I said is coming from the same logical and emotional place - like you know my logical and emotional processes - as the moronic statement your trying to tie to me, please accept my apologies, and perhaps you'd like to take another go at why you keep doing this? Because it seems to me that you don't seem super interested in what I say or mean, and more interested in fighting me for things I didn't say or mean. Willing to be proved wrong on this, but, well you see how it's difficult to imagine how you could go from "The time you spent trying to make sure no-one can call you an asshole could be better spent by doing just about anything else" to "There's no point in trying to be polite because I might upset someone anyway" without a bit of misinterpretation and assuming my world view, as well as ignoring then previous statements I made to clarify the point, right?
ETA: But you know what, you may be right. Perhaps I am inferring more intent than is warranted. You have my apologise for that.
"then literally extrapolate my ENTIRE WORLDVIEW"
I'm... I'm really not sure I did all that. I mean, your argument, seems to be that you can call me names because I did something worse, and given that worse is a subjective value, from that I extrapolate that you think if you judge something to be worse, you are justified in being unpleasant to them? Like I'm not sure I'm making any leaps between what you actually said and that conclusion.
"I made a remark because I thought you were being a jerk and hoped you would stop doing that"
Well, here's the problem I didn't think I was being a jerk, and I didn't see the fact that it "annoyed" or "wasn't appreciated" by someone as a good enough reason to do anything. Like, I don't appreciate tomatoes, I don't see that whoever put them in my salad needs to know or care.
"This conversation has actually really not been any fun at all"
I know what you mean, but I'm in it now, gotta see it through.
"DON'T ever tell me what or how I am thinking"
RIGHT back attcha. I mean, the fact that this is the hill you're choosing to fight on, after this entire thread... wew lad.
"literally telling me what is in my head which is super patronizing"
Isn't it just, tho. I'm glad you recognise that. Now if you would do me the kindness of taking that insight, and focusing it on your comments to me... I mean, all the way through, but if you want to take a look at the comment that my last comment was responding to...
"literally telling me what is in my head which is ... WAY more insulting than calling me a jerk AND way more insulting than me calling you a dick"
Ok, I'm starting to see how your hierarchy of "X is worse than Y so Y is ok for me to do stacks up. Just to help me complete the picture, is a "sexist" joke better or worse than telling someone what is in their head?
"Sexist jokes are not ok"
Well, Im not sure I agree. It depends on the intent, the message, the target, whether or not it's funny. I mean, I wouldn't wanna be so black and white about.
"There is no way to justify or explain away Trump's remarks about sexual assault"
You're assuming his comments were definitely about sexual assault, that's the base assumption I am challenging here. Sure they could be, but I'm nut sure that's the only reading of them. I'm not saying people are wrong to make either assumption, I'm saying people may not be defending sexual assault if they have a different interpretation to you. If someone doesn't see it that way, trying to guilt them into changing their viewpoint of shutting up or whatever by telling them that they are "giving a massive shitstain (Trump) the benefit of the doubt over the comfort of every woman you interact with".
"the comfort of every woman you interact with"
I thought women were not the borg? You can speak for every woman now? The comfort of "every" woman didn't see to badly assaulted when all those women voted for Trump. I admit I'm being facetious here but really, you can't make a blanket statement about "the comfort of every woman you interact with"
"You make a sexist joke or try to justify those remarks, and your intent doesn't really matter any more"
I think that's what they call a "Thought terminating cliche" isn't it? Intent ALWAYS matters. Always matters to me, anyway. It's not like if someone says a series of magic words it turns off your reasoning brain and activates your attack protocols. It shouldn't be anyway. Intent always matters. Understanding intent is - rather than, say inferring intent - is one of the most important things in any human relationship to my eyes.
"I would have been ready to give you the benefit of the doubt about the smugness but I cannot deal with the sexism."
And I would have been willing to discuss the possibility of sexism in what I was saying if you hadn't repeatedly attacked me for what I wasn't saying. I mean, for the record, I'm of the opinion that jokes about sexism can be ok, and you seem to be of the opinion that jokes about sexism are never ok, so this discussion wouldn't have solved anything, but I guess we'll never know.