[ SECRET POST #3709 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3709 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #530.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

OP

[(Anonymous)]

for the record, I do know some people justify him. But not everyone does. And this was in response to a rant that said just liking him was excusing his behavior and therefore excusing Nazis. From a Kylo fan.

Re: OP

[ketita]

Okay, liking him is not like excusing Nazis, and yes, that claim is definitely completely different from "I am uncomfortable with how society keeps on inventing faux-Nazi villains to drool over and sexualize" (which seems is more the direction that people here are thinking)

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Just kind of jumping off here, for me it seems very understandable that the faux-Nazi stuff gets sexualized? It's like the whole rape fantasy thing, the vast majority of people with that fantasy know that rape is horrific and awful. But they can remove the element that makes it rape (actual real life non-consent) and pick and choose a fantasy buffet of elements associated with it.

Evil Empire is such a... universal bad guy trope. What makes the First Order that much different from the aliens in Independence Day, really? Aesthetics. You can have conquering The World or galaxies and and evil military organizations but the moment you slap some puffy pants on them everyone's jaw drops over and goes "They're NAZIS!"

But honestly most people probably just want the standard buffet of villain tropes on a sharp uniform plate and set on a pseudo-military table structure. Red Skull wanting to take over ZE WORLD is a cool fantasy. If Avengers Assemble Red Skull actually started talking like a KKK member, I think a lot more people wouldn't like it.

Re: OP

[ketita]

But it's not a "random Evil Empire" trope. The trope is specifically based on the Nazi aesthetic, fascism, and modernity. You'll notice that none of these evil empires look like the Romans, or the Greeks, or the Mongols, or the Aztecs, or Communist China or Imperial China or North Korea.
It's NOT neutral, and it's not made-up.
And you know what, just like you compared to rape fantasies - yeah, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable with Nazi fetishization, because to them, Nazis will never be anything other than the nightmare that killed their family.

I should also add that I guess I'm looking at it from a slightly systemic/abstract angle, since I study literature haha

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm totally with you, OP.
I'm a Kylo Ren fan, as well as Hux and can see how both are interesting characters. Are their actions reprehensible? Yes.
It is possible to disagree with a character's actions and still find something about that character to be intrigued by, hell even sympathetic. Characters can particularly be built upon in fandom, to explore some of their justifications for what they did. (A character will believe that they are in the right, even if they are a 'space nazi').
I would even go so far as to argue the opposite, for people who like these 'dark' characters. They absolutely do not agree with them and want to explore how they could possibly act the way that they have.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Can't speak to the Kylo Ren aspect of your post, as I'm not in that fandom, but I agree with your overall argument here. There's also the fact that fiction is a safe way to show just how easy it is for these villains to lure their victims in. Sure, in real life, it's important to remind people of the dangers of certain groups or people, but in fiction, we get to explore why it's so easy for people to be sucked into that evil mindset or behavior. It can make for a good lesson for signs to watch out for when encountering these kinds of people in the real world, in some ways.

(For my character example of this sort, I'd use Norman Bates from "Bates Motel". In real life, sure, obviously, I'd run the other direction from somebody like him, because, well, dude's terrifying and dangerous. But I think the show's done a really good job of allowing us to sympathize with various aspects of Norman and his messed up life while still showing just how creepy he really is, and showing us how his seemingly polite demeanor is actually quite dangerous because of how easily he can use it to manipulate people and lure them into trusting him. That balance and deep exploration of his character makes him that much more fascinating, I think.)