fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #499 ]

[ SECRET POST #499 ]

⌈ Secret Post #499 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 445 secrets from Secret Submission Post #072.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

16. Yeah, yeah, because sociopaths can never be interesting characters or anything, even if they're assholes. (Isn't the potential for assholery inherent to the definition of the word?) For my own part, I'm convinced you'd be singing a different song if she were a guy.

PSH. Actually, I'm convinced she'd be gone a lot SOONER if she were a guy.

DO NOT PIN that crazy fangirl "omfg she's a girl, I hate her!" shit on me, it won't work. I hated Gordon too, and he was a guy. I find her CHARACTER completely useless. They tried, and failed miserably. I think Ruby is a fine character, and I don't hate on ANY OTHER female characters. The fact that YOU automatically assume that I don't like her because she's a girl is YOU being misogynistic and stereotyping, not me.

The boys made exception after exception for her, I think it compromised a lot of the show, and that's what I don't like.

- op

Your secret didn't say anything about how soon she'd be gone, only that people who find Bela interesting are plants from the network, because clearly no one could EVER find Bela a cool character! Don't put words in my mouth.

Gordon was okay but not spectacular for me! Bela I liked a lot - as I said, she's a genuine sociopath, and I find them interesting character types. CLEARLY OUR TASTES DIFFER. I do think that her craziness would be a lot more embraced by fans in general if she were male. I'm sorry if I pegged you wrongly for that particular quirk of fandom, but I'm pretty sure that recognizing common misogynistic undertones in a dismayingly large group of people does not in fact make me misogynist. It was a fan stereotype, yes. Forgive me for rolling my eyes a bit at someone who tells me my personal tastes make me less of a real fan; sure, maybe I wasn't taking you seriously, but you didn't really give me any reason to.

I think we're approaching this from slightly different angles. I'm looking at her as a character who was intriguingly nasty and whose downright bitchiness I found fun. You're looking at her from the viewpoint of her effect on the show, which I admit was off in some points. I think I separate these two issues a little more than you seem to be doing - what canon-compromising effects her presence had on the show were ANNOYING for me, but on the other hand, if they'd shot her the first episode she was in I would have enjoyed her character just as much. You're free to give the one priority over the other! But I can still think you're wrong without compromising my fan...integrity or whatever you're insulting people who like Bela with here, sorry. ♥

Well, firstly, I was half-joking. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more vocal Bela-lovers were from the show in some aspect, and it was fun for me to imagine it. That's just the feeling I got, because generally fandom were leary on both girls, waiting it out, then once Ruby was revealed to be a demon she was much more widely accepted.

To be honest, I'm glad I did this secret, because I've never ONCE read any compelling reason to like Bela, and now it's coming out, and the reaction seems much more honest and less contrived than reasons I used to get in her defense. Seeing her as a fun bitchy character helps me accept her more, and I know that's what you live for, because all I saw was how she kept fucking the boys over and they kept letting her.

I didn't put words in your mouth, you put "I'm convinced you'd be singing a different song if she were a guy.", which my brain went to imagining her character as a guy, and Dean finding a way to get away from "him" as soon as possible, or flat out killing him. Certainly no guy could get away with touching, much less moving his car (unless he was awesome with mind-control powers like Andy), or shooting his brother, or stealing from him, yanno? If anything, she seems to've gotten special treatment for being a girl. As a friend put it "her character seems inversely proportionate to Dean's coherence." It bugged me that she got away with as much as she did, and was STUPID about it. Like, why would you sell the colt when you KNOW it could be the only thing to save you from your deal? Why would you need to steal from people and sell it when you were rich off some inheritance? Why would you wait until the last possible minute to break down and ask for help? the plot and character holes are ASTOUNDING. She's sneaky and bitchy, but as far as character goes, and ESPECIALLY as a female... I'd appreciate someone a little smarter about things.

My favorite non-demonic sociopath would probably have to be Kubrick.

I think I probably just took out some frustration... I've been getting a little fed up with the assumption that because I don't like someone and she happens to be female, that makes me some crazy rabid fangirl bitch. A LOT of people assume that, you're not the only one.

< /sharing corner >

See, now I am completely eye to eye with you, though it's five thirty am for me and I cannot be as coherent as I want to be. Why am I still up.

I was just talking with

rocknload (who is basically my SPN fandom, since I don't really even touch the main one) about what you were saying! She is not a Bela fan, though she's okay with her. And something she said really struck me: "I actually tolerated Bela a whole lot more when Dean started hating her consistently and absolutely. Because Dean would and should respond like that, and once he did, everything was okay for me! When she died, he obviously felt bad for her, but he still hated her."

THAT is pretty much what I see as your problem with her in a nutshell, and yes, I absolutely agree with you that was a problem. (And slight misunderstanding on my part there - I thought you meant how soon she'd be gone in the sense of how soon the fans would bitch her character off the show, more or less.)

Her stupidity seemed like bad writing to me, mostly, and I was thus still able to view her as pretty awesome in potential; she's not the only victim of that in the show. I mean. My god. Look at poor Sam and Dean in Long-Distance Call a couple of weeks ago. YOU CAN'T REALLY BLAME THEM FOR THAT SHIT. I attributed it mostly to Kripke trying to be cute with her character; I was actually terrified right up till she died that she was going to end up a martyr with some ~deep emotional connection~ to the guys or something, which would have been a horrible maiming of a perfectly good hot crazy scheming psycho bitch. Her death was actually pretty cool for me in that regard, just because it DIDN'T try to make her a good guy. I can definitely see your point about wanting a smarter part for her, though, and I have to say I agree to an extent - I'd have loved to see what she did in the hands of better writers.

I don't think Kubrick was technicallly a sociopath, which is a term mostly used in conjunction with antisocial personality disorder with symptoms pretty nicely described here! He was just plain NUTS, and very cool for it - I liked him too. If even GORDON thinks you've got a few screws loose, you know you're on the right track!

When you don't provide a lot of context for your opinion, that's probably going to be the normal reaction. It's stupid and must be seriously frustrating for you, I know. But considering the fandom you're in - I've SEEN the things people say about Cassie and Jo - it's not really an illogical assumption from someone that doesn't know you. Though I apologize again for assuming. :/

[yay, sharing]

a perfectly good hot crazy scheming psycho bitch
That's one of the things people would cite as a reason they liked her, that she's hot and the actress seemed cool, which seemed SO HYPOCRITICAL to me! You're (not "you", but generally) yelling at me for hating her because she's female (when you don't know my reasons), when you LIKE her because she's HOT?! WTFS!?

I'm not sure her weird departure was entirely on "bad" writers, it was severely shortened by the writer's strike and I REALLY don't think that her being in a crossroads deal was part of the original plan (because Kripke is usually pretty careful about things lining up, and that whole thing just made NO SENSE). I think they had to hastily tie up her character, and that was one way to go.

Eh, I forget technical titles for things. Maybe I'm thinking more along the lines of psychopath.

Yeah, it's late for me too. 3 am. Insomnia is fun!

I figured the shorter the better, because overexplaining kills it for me. At least for the funny ones. Actually, people attacking me without knowing has opened my eyes, and I'm a little more careful now as well. =o]

Hm, I can see their point though, as her hotness is not really a separate part of her character? She uses it like a weapon; it's probably one of the stronger ones she's got, aside from total amorality. So I can see her hotness being included as part of the liking-Bela package! Though it could just be fandumb too, who knows.

True enough. It was still more of an external wtf issue than the character being portrayed as stupid, in my eyes at least? That was the point I was getting at in any case...

I'm pretty sure he's not a psychopath either! YES I KNOW I AM NITPICKING TERMS, bear with me. It is a thing of mine. He was obsessive about stuff and somewhat delustional, but I didn't think he had a mental condition.

VERY MUCH SO, though it is starting to sap my ability for discussion. It's been good talking with you! I hate to say that my original point stands, though... I'm sure at least a few people who are not you hate Bela for exactly the reasons I was first indicating. Which, to me, is sad.

It sounds like you got some interesting conversations out of it, at least~

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[ SECRET POST #499 ]

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