[ SECRET POST #3803 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3803 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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04.
[Dramatical Murder]


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[Agents of SHIELD]


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08.
[NCIS/Bull (Michael Weatherly)]


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09. [WARNING for discussion of rape]











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #544.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

What characters that have been called Mary Sues do you like? Do you think the Mary Sue title is justified for them?

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

Rey. I can see where people who call her a Mary Sue come from, but I don't care.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

This!

I refuse to agree that she's a Mary Sue just because she's a natural at flying, and fighting, and harnessing the force. Dudes and their giant freaking mountain of magically skilled male protagonists can fuck right off with that reasoning.

However, the fact that she's basically Luke But Better, I must admit, does make me recognize the validity of calling her a Mary Sue.

But I just have zero fucks to give about it. I like her. And I liked the movie.

Re: Inspired by #6

[philstar22]

The Doctor from Doctor Who. He's maybe kind of suish, but he has faults. And the reason he's so good is that he's lived so long and been doing the whole saving the universe things forever.

Ginny Weasley. I may not ship her with Harry, but that doesn't mean I think she's a sue. Ginny is awesome. She's probably my favorite Weasley. And she certainly has faults (see book 6) and is not front and center enough to really be a Sue (see book 7).

Rey. I don't even get the Sue comments with her. She's not a Sue, she's just awesome. And there are explanations for her skills that make sense. Like, she can use the force more easily than Luke could at first because, unlike Luke, she's been on her own and had to learn how to survive. She may have already been using it a bit, and certainly her ability do what she had to in order to survive would translate well into being able to instinctively use the Force against Kylo.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

In some ways, I think Rey pretty clearly does fit the original mold of a Mary Sue. Like, she's a literal badass who's also suddenly the most important person in the universe and the most important part of the plot and who everyone loves suddenly etc. Those features are definitely there.

But I agree it doesn't come off that way at all in the movie. Partly because they do a good job making a believable and likable character, partly because it's canon, partly because Star Wars is just set up to have Mary Sue-type characters who are the center of everything in the universe so it feels right.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

For me I think the big definition on if a character is a Sue or a protag. is, do they lift up the other characters or put them down?

Look at how many classic Westley Crusher episodes had other characters needing the plot to make them stupid/OOC in order to make it believable that this teenage boy could totally upstage them. Rey isn't like that, the areas where Finn flails a little feel natural and she stumbles too (like telling Han she totally knows how to use a blaster, then not remembering to take the safety off)

The only character I've seen accused of making another character act dumb/OOC is Han trusting Kylo.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

I never got why Ginny was a "Sue." She seemed fine to me, and certainly had flaws, so...

Re: Inspired by #6

[type_wild]

Is there a character that HASN'T at some point been called a Sue :/

FWIW, Utena Tenjou. The one time I saw her called a Sue, it was by an honest to god fan of the show who pointed out that if you change the POV of the story, she absolutely IS (super-cool teenage girl with special powers enters a well-established universe, half the male cast are in love with her, saves the day by heroic sacrifice)

Re: Inspired by #6

[ketita]

That's such an interesting observation about Utena, because it really is kind of true, and yet to me, she didn't come off as Sueish in the least. Maybe because the actual battles themselves weren't really "the point", and there was so much going on behind the scenes... huh.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

JJ from "Criminal Minds" has gotten this label, especially in latter seasons, and I can see why they might say that, but, well, depending on what definition one's using, I think many of the female characters could fit that definition at some point. Seaver got the same label during her time on the show, and I think she fits it more than JJ does in many ways.

I still personally like both JJ and Seaver, though, so...*Shrugs*

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't hate Seaver, but I can see where the label would fit her. I personally never got the sense that she earned her spot on the team, so everything felt like it was handed to her, just because? She's not even out of the academy, yet lands a spot on this supposedly difficult to get into team, her father's a serial killer... huge eyerolls on that one.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

I was surprised when I learned that people were calling JJ a Mary Sue or an Action Lady or whatever. She doesn't seem to be any more exceptional than the rest of the BAU. She's not standing out in a way that draws attention. But then I'm also someone who doesn't notice if Reid or any other character doesn't get enough screen time every episode.

I kind of laugh about Seaver. Her setup might be a little Mary Sue in that she's the daughter of a serial killer and she's so young to be on the team, but the execution wasn't that at all. Except for her first episode where it was relevant, she was basically the person everyone else did exposition dumps to. She barely got to do anything. We barely learned anything about her. To my recollection, she only has one moment in the last episode where Rossi asks for her objective opinion but otherwise, she was an audience stand-in to ask the questions that none of the other team needed to ask. She was too bland to be a Mary Sue (I did like her though).

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

Tonks from Harry Potter. I really didn't think she was a Mary Sue. I liked her from the moment she showed up.

Re: Inspired by #6

[dancingmouse]

Gonna jump on the Rey Wagon. I think she tows the line of Mary-Sue (like being able to use the force and fight trained force users with no training, everyone pretty much liking her right away, even characters who are not known for liking people, knowing how to use the Falcon better than Han) but she's awesome and badass enough that it gets balanced out.

Re: Inspired by #6

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Of course Rey isn't a Sue, she's not a FAN CHARACTER. And really fandom needs to figure out that writing criticism created for the particular weirdness that's fan work shouldn't be liberally turned around and applied to the original texts.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

Ashi. In fact, I wanted her to go MAXIMUM OVERSUE and get her happily-ever-after with Samurai Jack.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

Tohru Honda from Fruits Basket. I guess she sorta is because she's so sweet, everyone seems to love her, and she seems to have a way of emotionally healing the people around her, even the ones who hate her. I still like her though. She's so dang cute.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry anon but Tohru is why I quit the series, or more specifically I can't stand series where everyone falls in love with the main character, it just tends to make that character's flaws stick out.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

Tohru has kind of interesting flaws and weaknesses, though, and they (and the reasons for them) become really important near the end of the story. I thought of her as kind of sue-ish (but I liked her so I didn't care) till it started getting near the real climax of the overall storyline and then I realized there was actually a lot more to her than I had thought.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

Luna, from Lunar: The Silver Star Story. I don't think it's wrong but I found her likable so I don't really care, lmao.

Re: Inspired by #6

[sadiesockmonkey]

Rey was the first to come to mind for me.

Re: Inspired by #6

[greghousesgf]

Some people think Lindsay from CSINY is a Mary Sue but I don't think so, I like her.

Re: Inspired by #6

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Many of them.

I'm at the point where if you call an original character in media a "Mary Sue" that I'm probably not going to listen to anything you have to say. It's become such an overly broad criticism as to be meaningless, doesn't say anything about why a character is badly developed, and is often sexist in application.

Re: Inspired by #6

[(Anonymous)]

I like Skye in what I've seen of Agents of SHIELD.

I like Buffy.

I like female superheroes in general, so I expect my faves overlap with the Mary Sue label a good deal.

Re: Inspired by #6

[cakemage]

Captain Janeway, Seven of Nine, Rey, Nymphadora Tonks, Ginny Weasley, Kairi, Namine, Xion, Katara, Korra, Asami...the list goes on. Basically, the moment a character (particularly a female character) is labelled a Sue, 9 times out of 10 I will start to like them more than I already did. This is, I admit, partially because I am a spiteful, contrarian asshole.