fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3811 ]

[ SECRET POST #3811 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3811 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[resized, not a repeat]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 45 secrets from Secret Submission Post #546.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

what's the difference to you

The letters used and the order they are presented in, obviously. Are you dyslexic?

No, but you might be.

If you are going to make a shitty joke, at least try.

If the OP doesn't care enough to make their trolling interesting, I don't see why I should have to put any effort into mocking them. If they troll better, I'll bring the better material.

lol, what are you talking about trolling

Context and execution.

The intent behind it and the way it's executed. Sometimes the line can be subtle.

If you put a person of color in a predominantly white cast, for example, and do nothing with them, they don't grow, they don't get storylines that don't revolve around how 'different' they are, that's a token to me.

It's hard to get beyond tokenism with only one character of insert race/sexuality/class/whatever. No matter how nuanced and well-rounded a single black character among 10 other white characters is, or one poor character among 10 other rich characters is, they're going to seem token in some respect because there's only one character of that race and one character, by way of being one character and not multiple characters, can't be representative of multiple facets of that group... they can only be the ones that fit them.

The more characters you have of each subgroup, the more diverse it gets. Eight straight characters and one gay character makes the gay character seem token no matter how realistic or unstereotypical they are. On the other hand, if you have six straight characters and three gay characters who are all distinct and different people, it has a much better chance of showing real diversity.

Tokenism = "hey this other group exists."
Diversity = "this other group exists and they're all different types and styles of people too."

This is also why every "Chick" in a band of Everyone Else is Male, no matter how awesome or unstereotypical she is, is going to be a token. She can only represent the type of girl she is, and there's an implication that she's supposed to represent all girls.

*generally speaking. Obviously not 100% of the time and rare exceptions exist.

^^^

Bob's the nice one! Bill's the nerd! Joe's the punk! Chad's the jock! Jenny's the... girl.

And this is why so many women hate so many female characters, but no, let's blame "internalized misogyny."

I don't think that's always why, though

DA

I agree it's not always why but I do think a lot of what is labeled internalized misogyny can be caused by characters like this. There are female characters I love but it took longer for me to find them than it should have because so many of the one or two slots reserved for "the Girl" in so many series used the same damn tropes and there were no slots left for any other women than the most common popular tropey types.

Are you talking about real people and not characters? Because if so, this is nonsense. Artists represent themselves and their work, not demographics.

They're talking about characters in tropaic language, I'm pretty sure.

What on earth makes you think this is talking about real people? Do you apply "tropes" to real people?

I don't think they're particularly contradictory. But tokenism is kinda of the lowest level of writing diversity. Take for example, Wonder Woman or Alien: Covenant. Both have same-sex couples (although if you blink you'll miss them) and ok, having them in the film is a good thing.

But compare that to say, Rupetta, which is an alternate history novel where a lesbian couple become the central myth behind Western modernity with significant consequences, or The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms where a plural marriage among three primary gods is the central myth there, or Ancillary Sword where gender isn't the primary marker of power and status within a culture, or The Wicked and the Divine where Baal's relationship with Innana is a key issue to understanding why Baal does what he does, or The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet or Spin State where gender is the least important issue in an inter-species hookup, or ...

Diversity is a character who's allowed to develop and have a personality, who just also happen to be black/gay/a woman/whatever.

Tokenism is a character who is defined solely by their race/orientation/sex/whatever, who gets little to no development beyond that.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3811 ]

tokenism versus diversity

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