fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3818 ]

[ SECRET POST #3818 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3818 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Twin Peaks]

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03.

[Parks and Recreation]

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04.

[The Grand Tour, Richard Hammond]

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(character from the movie The Babadook)

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06.

[The Mummy (2017 reboot)]

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07.

[Kemono Friends]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #547.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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actual trans people whose identities are more likely to be dismissed because of morons trying to gain Oppression Points, would be my guess

The thing is that there's no reliable way to tell who's pretending to be trans and who is "really" trans. There's no way of attacking "transtrenders" without attacking transgender people generally.

nah, it's actually pretty easy. if someone claims to be trans but says they don't have dysphoria, they're a faker. see? easy.

Let's take as given for a second that only all trans people are necessarily dysphoric.

If that's the case, do you believe that all non-dysphoric people are cis? Or are there some people who are not cis but also not dysphoric?

if you're not dysphoric, congrats, you're cis. this whole "nonbinary" bullshit is just that: special snowflake bullshit.

*snerk* I suspect that if Bornstein and Feinberg were getting their start in this decade as opposed to the 1990s, they'd be called transtrenders for talking about gender in nonbinary terms.

DA

As soon as someone can explain nonbinary genders without resorting to gender stereotypes I'll accept it. Since that's all it burns down to, nah, it's special snowflake "I'm not like the other girls/guys" stuff.

The trans community started talking about gender in nonbinary terms because medical gatekeepers demanded higher standards of gender role conformity than they did of cis men and women. So trans people started off critiquing the idea that there was as an ideal of manhood/womanhood to transition into, and that full legal and medical transition was an ideal path for all trans persons.

You can't talk about gender without talking about stereotypes, because stereotypes are part of how we impose coercive gender roles onto biological and psychological realities that are continuous to different degrees. Nonbinary people experience distress when coerced into passing to avoid violence and discrimination. That's been my reality for over 25 years now, and it's not remotely trendy for a middle-aged person to be outside of the gender binary.

So it's basically literally "people are assholes to trans people, so let's make up some new genders that have no actual meaning aside from 'not like the other guys/girls'".

It's the recognition that two boxes of "man" and "women" are not enough to account for all forms of gender identity and gender dysphoria.

That's a matter of interpretation, though.

Yeah, it feels like the biggest debate within community is what those labels mean so you've got once side who wants to expand the definition of man and woman and another who feels like that's a lost cause so creating more identities is the way to go. So you get both sides with different definitions of the same word yelling at each other because their definitions don't match.

There's obviously way more to it, but that how I feel like that's the biggest issue.

Saying it's all about "what those labels mean" is a luxury of having one's head firmly up one's asshole and only dealing with this subject online. My three biggest concerns are psychological treatment, violence/harassment, and workplace discrimination. I don't get fantasy "trend points" for being openly queer in any of these areas.

It's not. There are only three ways this can go down. You either 1) insist on a cultural system of binary gender, with discrimination and violence to support that, 2) accept that biological and psychological gender are not dichotomous and let people construct our own identities where they experience minimal distress, or 3) get rid of gender entirely. While my sympathies lie with #3, I know it's not going to happen in my lifetime.

What about "men/women do that too?" Well, that's just a rubber band model. You get slack in one direction by accepting restriction in a different direction. If that works for you, great. But it doesn't work for everyone. It doesn't work for me, and to paraphrase Soloway, I'm no longer interested in trying to synthesize my queerness with the label assigned to me at birth. Maybe that will change in the future, but it's been a dead end for 25 years and I'm not willing to spend the next 25 years banging my head against that wall.

And it's not just about interpretation or labels. It's about a very hard practical realities: the standards of care I get for dysphoria and PTSD, how I negotiate dress codes at work, where I can go when traveling without getting bashed.

Alright, I'll give it a go. I don't experience dysphoria. At all. I don't experience the dysphoria that cis people do when the topic of losing something like breasts or penis comes up. I've watched cis friends go through incredibly painful and expensive breast reconstruction after cancer to ease the dysphoria of not having breasts, and been somewhat confused because I have a lot of trouble imagining it. I like my boobs, but if it was a choice between them and cancer I'd have them chopped off with no hesitation because to me having them and not having them is equal. I've listened to friends and people with cancer not realize how hard it would be when cancer treatment took away their hair and femininity and I just... can't bring myself to care when it comes to myself? People talk about cross dressing and seeing 'a stranger' in the mirror, or 'another person'. For me, dressing ultra-femm or cross dressing or looking like I usually do is the same amount of "Yup, that's me."

And outside of other people who consider themselves agender or non-bianary I just don't encounter this. I'm totally cool with being seen as female because if I do nothing appearance-wise aside from keep myself clean I read as female. Times I've been called he I haven't even noticed until others pointed it out to me. So unless you know a better way to state "I don't experience the same levels of dysphoria as a cis person does when their gender presentation is disrupted" I'll keep going with agender.

Also, aside from some ADD I'm considered neurotypical so take that as you will.

"I don't experience dysphoria"

Congratz, you're cis and just don't particularly care about your sex. In my experience, most people don't. Maybe it's a cultural thing as well, depending where you live, but with your definition, most people I know would be nonbinary or agender. In my opinion, if you don't feel dysphoria about NOT having a gender neutral body, you're cis.

Ok, so because I'm equally cool with being male or with being female or with being neither, I'm cis something. Great definition. A+, you have figured out the universe.

Yes you are.

I guess I don't exist then.

I mean, it's not like that's what surgery is for or anything.

Surgery is the way a lot of trans people chose to get rid of dysphoria. So usually, trans individuals who get surgeries at least suffered from dyphoria somewhere along the way. If not, there wouldn't be a need for surgery.

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[ SECRET POST #3818 ]

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