[ SECRET POST #3819 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3819 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 40 secrets from Secret Submission Post #547.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: confessions

[thewakokid]

There is a leap there that I am just not seeing? Like I don't see how someone like me was identity policing. What are we talking about here?

Re: confessions

[(Anonymous)]

(for clarity sake: this is also a little in response to your reply to cbary's post in one of the other subthreads)

So, the way that you've framed this struggle here is around the identity of "gamer" as an identity, right? Like you said in the other reply, that's the identity that you feel that you need to defend. And that matches with my own perception of what the whole Gamergate thing was mostly about, and why most people who were involved in it cared about. So on that level, it seems like it makes sense.

But once you start talking about a gamer identity, you have to ask yourself: what does that gamer identity consist of? And I think that's part of what cbary was pointing out - that gamer is a complicated concept, and that there are all sorts of invisible ways in which we define that identity. Being a gamer does not just mean that you play games - it means that you care about games in a certain way, that you care about certain games specifically, etc. And often, at least from the outside, those definitions seem to line up with a bunch of demographic markers. Like, the kind of games that gamers care about tend to be the games that are most directly marketed towards particular age groups and towards men and all the rest of that stuff. And there's nothing wrong with that, in itself. But it is more of a problem when you turn it into the idea that gaming as a hobby has to be about that, and gaming press has to be responsive to that, and focusing on things outside of that is bad. I think that's what cbary is pointing to.

And then, what I was trying to say when it comes to identity policing - I think a lot of what Gamergate was about was about who was allowed to count as a gamer and who was allowed to be about gaming as a hobby. So a lot of that is defining the people and the attitudes that are outside gaming, and then trying to force them out of gaming, and trying to force the gaming media not to take on approaches to gaming outside of that identity. And that is identity policing. Even if it's not a racial or ideological identity, it's still identity policing.

Even if you completely ignore all of the gender stuff, and the scumbags, it's still at the base of it an attempt to say who is allowed in the gaming club and who isn't. About people who are gamers, according to your understanding of what a gamer is, and people who aren't.

I hope that makes some degree of sense.

Re: confessions

[thewakokid]

Riiiight. ok. With you now, and I agree up to a point. That point being:

that gamer is a complicated concept, and that there are all sorts of invisible ways in which we define that identity. Being a gamer does not just mean that you play games - it means that you care about games in a certain way, that you care about certain games specifically, etc

Yes agreed.

those definitions seem to line up with a bunch of demographic markers. Like, the kind of games that gamers care about tend to be the games that are most directly marketed towards particular age groups and towards men and all the rest of that stuff.

Disagree on that one.

Perfect example, this last weekend, I spent about an hour talking to a complete stranger, a slightly younger woman of colour, about a game we both love FFXI which was written and market towards younger gamers with a fairly romance heavy series of sub plots. That lines up with none of my demographic markers. She lines up with almost none of my deomgraphic markers except she was dressed as a character from the game.

Or I can spent 20 seconds talking to a guy my age, my sex, my orientation about halo, where I bring up the deep story and lore, and all he talks about is his top kills or some shite, and realise I have nothing in common with him. Or not halo, I can actually give an example that has happened with a guy from work my exact age, all the same markers, and i want to talk about overwatch lore, but he can't even name a character.

Part of the reason I love the gaming community is because demographic markers, mean precisely dick all.

So I see what your saying, but honestly outside of the one thing we have in common, the choice to be a gamer, I don't see that identity has ever had a bearing on my experience in the community.

Re: confessions

[(Anonymous)]

I understand if you don't want to talk about this anymore, but I just want to make sure it's clear that the other part of my post doesn't depend on the first one. I do think there is a bit of underlying social structuring there, but maybe not as much as it might seem from the outside. But I also think it's still identity policing either way. And I think it's really easy for that kind of identity policing to turn into something malign.

Re: confessions

[thewakokid]

OH, hey, don't take it personally. I hope I'm not coming across too defensive. I see what your saying, I just don't see that as being something that's ever really cropped up in my gaming life, the identity stuff.

I could be wrong, I suppose but I don't think I am.

I certainly don't have anything against talking to you in this thread here. I feel you've been clear and respectful, and while I disagree, I don't feel particularly attacked or judged by anything you've said. and I do hope the same is true from your side.

That said, this whole thing has gone on for rather a long while, and its late and the whole topic can get a bit... tiring after a while, so I do hope you're ok to end this on an "Agree to differ" kinda thing?