Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2017-06-23 06:58 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2017-06-23 06:58 pm
[ SECRET POST #3824 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3824 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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02.
[BoJack Horseman]
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06.
[Horizon Zero Dawn]
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09. [WARNING for possible discussion of harassment/sexual assault?]
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10. [WARNING for discussion of rape]
(Bill Cosby and Keshia Knight Pulliam)
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11. [WARNING for discussion of harassment/cyberbulling, abortion, child sexual abuse]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #547.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
I'd accuse you of doing the same thing, but your not even cherrypicking quotes. You're taking the word that are written and re-writing them to fit into your defense of the letter.
"Black Panther is a movie for black people" is a literal quote. They didn't say "[Black Panther] is a black movie about black characters and black experiences and none of that can be removed from fandom. They literally said "Black Panther is a movie for black people" They did then follow it up with mitigations that they will share it, but then claimed a greater level of ownership: "It's ours" a claiming statement "While you get to share it, you don't get to claim it".
We, as comic fans, as people who have loved the character for a long time, and have been pumped for this movie since Civil War showed that they could do it well, We have the exact same right of "Ownership" as you do - Which is actually no fucking right of ownership at all since it's actually marvels, but that hasn't stopped us from declaring Spider from being My Guytm.
Simple test, almost cliche by this point. swap the words. Replace white for black, Black Panther for Captain America, tell me if that shit reads ok. You know it doesn't. I agree context is a thing, but in this? no, black fans are no different to white fans, black heroes are no less fucking awesome that white heroe's and no-one get's to dictate my emotional connection to, or how I express that emotion connection to any god damn character. Is it's ok for Spiderman to be My Guy, if it's ok for x23 to be My Girl, by Bae, my waifu then... shit you already know this.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2017-06-24 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)then claimed a greater level of ownership: "It's ours" a claiming statement "While you get to share it, you don't get to claim it".
I don't think that's exclusive. If anything, it's saying that it's not exclusive. White people don't get to claim it as being about and for white people, as being exclusively theirs. That's what it's saying. You might disagree with the underlying thesis about the relationship between white people and black culture, but even if so, that's the context in which this particular person is writing and that's what they mean.
Simple test, almost cliche by this point. swap the words. Replace white for black, Black Panther for Captain America, tell me if that shit reads ok. You know it doesn't. I agree context is a thing, but in this? no, black fans are no different to white fans, black heroes are no less fucking awesome that white heroe's and no-one get's to dictate my emotional connection to, or how I express that emotion connection to any god damn character. Is it's ok for Spiderman to be My Guy, if it's ok for x23 to be My Girl, by Bae, my waifu then... shit you already know this.
I don't think anyone is saying that you can't like Black Panther. They're saying that he is a black character founded in black experiences and you can't erase that from his character, in the same way that you can't erase Captain America's American-ness from his character. That obviously doesn't mean that a British person can't like Captain America, but if you tried to write a Captain America story that was actually all about being British, it would be kind of weird.
Of course, that's not really a precise analogy, because of context: the African-American experience is not the same as the relationship between Americans and the British. And that's also the reason that the Captain America analogy doesn't really work here. Captain America is white and no one really in comicsland is trying to deny that. The only people who would go out there and argue that he's ONLY for whites would be white supremacists. Who suck, and whose politics fundamentally conflict with the basic idea of Captain America as a character, and who also would be making a totally different argument, because no one is making an actual black supremacist argument about Black Panther or saying that he's exclusively for black people.
(Please do not bring up Isaiah Bradley or Patriot in an attempt to say that people are trying to say that Captain America is actually black, by the way, that would be a really fuckin dumb argument)
no subject
White people don't get to claim it as being about and for white people, as being exclusively theirs. That's what it's saying.
That could be what it's trying to say, but I'll be honest, having read it a few times to fact check for these responses, I really do think that's being fed more by what you'd like it to be saying. You could be right, but that just reads as so far away from what is actually written that I just don't see it.
I don't think anyone is saying that you can't like Black Panther.
Agreed
They're saying that he is a black character founded in black experiences and you can't erase that from his character
Disagreed. Sorry, see above that could be what they're trying to say, but there's just not enough clues in there for me to make that leap or to believe that that leap is what they were going for. If that is what they're trying to say, I would agree, I think we're on the same page. If you wrote this post I think I'd agree with you, but as it's written I still stnad by my interpretation of what they were driving at and I disagree with that.
You're captain america analogy makes sense to me, but that's just not what Iim seeing in the origional post. Like they use the words "Your white favs do not belong in Wakanda... in meta...in headcanons... in fics. Like to me, following your cap / british analogy, that would be "Cap can not have british people in his story, because he's american.
Who the hell is trying to say Captain America is black because of Isaiah - which was a damned interesting story, but in no way does that mean that Steve Rogers is black - and Eli even further removed from Cap! I don't want to show that I am surprised by fandom, but really? This is a thing people are pushing?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2017-06-24 09:17 pm (UTC)(link)You're captain america analogy makes sense to me, but that's just not what Iim seeing in the origional post. Like they use the words "Your white favs do not belong in Wakanda... in meta...in headcanons... in fics. Like to me, following your cap / british analogy, that would be "Cap can not have british people in his story, because he's american.
I read that bit as a clumsily-phrased extension of the point being made about making black pain into plot points for white favs - basically, as both being part and parcel of the same argument about white favs. So how I interpret that is saying, not that the twain shall never meet, but that you shouldn't use Wakanda as nothing more than a backdrop for stories about white favs. Which I don't think is unreasonable, but maybe you don't agree with the interpretation, and fair enough. But that's where I'm coming from with that.
no subject