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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-06-27 06:42 pm
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[ SECRET POST #3828 ]


⌈ Secret Post #3828 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #548.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2017-06-27 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)
No, she's saying you don't get to treat this fictional character the same way you would treat other fictional characters, regardless of how you feel about said fictional character, all for the reason that they're black.

It doesn't matter if you really connect with someone in this movie, you don't get to comment on or relate to them as if they had been of another race. You only get to relate to these characters in a way SHE personally approves of. That's what she's saying.

It's so goddamn stupid.

I get being worried about how a black superhero might get treated and reacted to. I even understand feeling possessive of a character when you feel like you related to them because few or no people in the world get you, or celebrating something you've been waiting for since forever. I'll never know what it's like to be waiting for something in fiction to represent my race in an awesome way, but I get those are still valid hopes and feelings. But no matter what, nobody gets to dictate someone else's enjoyment of a character. And to go THIS GUY IS OURS NOT YOURS just worsens any shitty feelings that already exist in fandom, or creates shitty feelings where there weren't any.

(Anonymous) 2017-06-27 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
No, she's saying you don't get to treat this fictional character the same way you would treat other fictional characters, regardless of how you feel about said fictional character, all for the reason that they're black.

But why is this prima facie wrong, though.

And to go THIS GUY IS OURS NOT YOURS just worsens any shitty feelings that already exist in fandom, or creates shitty feelings where there weren't any.

It explicitly does not say THIS GUY IS OURS NOT YOURS

Like, it literally says the words "while you get to share it you don't get to claim it"

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
It literally says, "THESE ARE NOT YOUR NEGROES" in the title. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

I can see a point buried in there about historical infantilisation, and also that feelings can get a little raw... but complaining that the exact same language used of established characters might be used of these ones is... odd. Othering. Less than helpful.

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 02:38 am (UTC)(link)
It literally says, "THESE ARE NOT YOUR NEGROES" in the title. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

Oh, come the fuck on, that cannot seriously be your argument. Jesus. Saying "these are not your negroes" is a universe away from saying "you are not allowed to be a fan of these characters." Like, are you actually being fucking serious here?

I can see a point buried in there about historical infantilisation, and also that feelings can get a little raw... but complaining that the exact same language used of established characters might be used of these ones is... odd. Othering. Less than helpful.

Sure, I'm not disputing that, and I'm not arguing that every jot and tittle in the post is correct. But I think the underlying principle is correct, even if it doesn't apply to the specific words mentioned, so it's weird to me that people seem to be directing their arguments towards the underlying principles.

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 03:14 am (UTC)(link)
It. It's the title. That thing that tells us what the rest of the text is about.

Words mean things, yeah? This fairly aggressive post goes on and on about how words mean things, but I'm not supposed to read the actual words of the actual text when deciding what I think about it?

Uh. So words only mean what your personal context feels they should at this time I guess?

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 03:30 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not saying that it's irrelevant I'm saying that you're interpreting it wrong. Because the phrase "your negro" and the concept of "being someone's negro" has a specific meaning related to the idea of ownership and the long history. 'Bae' doesn't, I agree with that, but being "your negro" absolutely ABSOLUTELY is an enormously freighted phrase.

So I agree that we should take the use of the phrase seriously. But I don't think that, in saying that the characters are "not your negroes", the author is saying that white people can't be fans of those characters. The author is saying that white people don't own those characters, and can't own those characters, and oughtn't to think of those characters in dehumanizing and possessive ways.

I am very confident that you are misreading that specific phrase. Is what I'm trying to say here.

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 03:55 am (UTC)(link)
DA

They're correct. They also don't own these characters. Marvel does.

They also, as hard as they try, cannot own other people's experiences of these characters and story. It's being shared and all of these things are going to be demonstrably outside of their control. They could make this suck less for everyone by stop trying to fight that aspect of it.

It's another thing like saying 'this is our music.' or 'these are our words.' You can't take it back once it's out there, you can only choose not to share it in the first place. I think the reason why segregation even came into is because there's been a trend of these type of screeds on Twitter and Tumblr recently. Similar stuff was posted about Lemonade when that dropped.

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 04:42 am (UTC)(link)
AYRT:

I am very confident that you are misreading that specific phrase. Is what I'm trying to say here.

I'm sorry, but you haven’t convinced me that I misread that specific phrase.

...that white people don't own those characters, and can't own those characters, and oughtn't to think of those characters in dehumanizing and possessive ways.

See, this I can get behind.

But the specific language the OP criticizes isn't intended, by the users, as dehumanising. It isn't read, by their audience, as dehumanising. It's affectionate, informal (bordering on ridiculous), has no racial component, and comes from a very different place than the language of oppressing a disadvantaged social class.

If their letter said, 'Don't treat these characters like porn stereotypes,' I could get behind it. If it said, 'Don't fetishise their otherness,' likewise.

But it's not. It's saying, 'How dare you treat these characters as other popular characters are treated.'

And I cannot support it.

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 04:11 am (UTC)(link)
The "OP" (of the original post, not the secret) never said you are not allowed to be fan. Nobody is saying that "OP" said this. What are you arguing?

"OP" is trying to control how non-blacks see and relate to the characters of Black Panther. All while hiding behind the "ownership" argument. She is basically telling non-blacks that they can be fans only under conditions that she deems acceptable. And that's just shitty, no matter who you are.

I mean, nobody is trying to control her experience of the movie and its characters. So why is it okay for her to do that to everyone else?

(Anonymous) 2017-06-28 04:43 am (UTC)(link)
+1
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