[ SECRET POST #3845 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3845 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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04. http://i.imgur.com/1zpvB2y.jpg
[linked on OP's request; (illustrated) depictions of violence and torture]


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[dance, So You Think You Can Dance, Dancing with the Stars, World of Dance]


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[Chicago Fire]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #550.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/E639HHQ.jpg
[dance, So You Think You Can Dance, Dancing with the Stars, World of Dance]

[(Anonymous)]

Try letting go of your feminist ideology and look at the bigger picture. Men and women are different. Sure, women can do most things men do. But because most men are physically structured different to most women, there are things they are more capable of, just as women are more capable of doing things because of their unique qualities. Having physical power, ie upper body strength and height, is important to some types of ballroom dance, (and other dance forms too). It doesn't make the female partner less powerful or competent because, as Ginger Rogers once said, women have to do the sames steps men do, only backwards and in high heels.

[(Anonymous)]

I really don't think this needs to be a fucking case study for a critique of feminism, for Pete's sake

[(Anonymous)]

NA
I think OP pretty much opened the door for one and ayrt made good points.

[(Anonymous)]

Try shutting up until you know what you are talking about. Dance roles in ballroom are squat to do with physical differences and "the man leads" is entirely social and riven with patriarchal overtones.
That said, it's an art form that need have little to do with real life in practice and there is nothing un-feminist about enjoying it. OP is being either way oversensitive or asking for this kind of comment tripe and being a bit trollish themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

Christ this is a sad way to live your life

[(Anonymous)]

...OP didn't say anything particularly radical? Why is everyone making "I'm not a fan of gender roles but I like this kinda gender role-based thing anyway" out to be some radical ~craaazy feminist~ statement wtf. It doesn't sound like OP thinks it's that big of a deal.

[(Anonymous)]

NOOOO it MUST mean that OP can't enjoy anything at all!

Because that's how you argue these days. You take someone's thought or opinion, make it more extreme than it is, and then imply that it influences their entire life in a negative way.

So, this opinion is HUGE. It affects all of OP's life. It keeps them from enjoying ANYTHING. And thus, OP has a "sad" life.

It also gives you a great opportunity to do the condescending "I'm insulting you but pretending I feel sorry for you" thing people love to do.

[(Anonymous)]

This mentality is one of the reasons why I don't call myself a feminist. Everyone is so caught up in purity and guilt. I think gender roles suck, but it's not going to stop me from enjoying things where they're present, so long as it's not harming anyone.

My boyfriend and I went to a hardware store recently. He bought tools and I (a woman) bought some gardening supplies. We laughed about how we weren't subverting our gender roles enough, but we weren't guilty about it or anything. It's just what we're into.

[(Anonymous)]

But don't you see?!!! Not subverting gender roles HARMS PEOPLE! ALL THE TIME!!! JUST BECAUSE! /sarcasm

[(Anonymous)]

I'm fine with the feminist label, but yeah, exactly, there's nothing saying that you CAN'T play with traditional gender roles if you WANTED to. It's fine that roles exist as long as I'm not expected to confirm to them all across the board just because. It's all about being able to make a choice.

People need to relax. I thought 2nd wave was bad. 3rd wave is turning into a weird neurotic guilt-trippy pile of navel-gaze. :p

[(Anonymous)]

This isn't 3rd wave; this is 4th wave.

[(Anonymous)]

It really depends on what brand of feminism you subscribe to though because there are different theories. I've seen a lot of branches of liberal feminism that are very sex positive and wouldn't care how you express your gender.

Radical feminism may where you're getting the "purity" from though even that is inaccurate because radical feminism isn't about purity or guilt but about fighting the harm that sex work/porn does to women. Radical feminism also wouldn't care how you expressed your gender, but is of the belief that gender should be abolished completely so that people can have whatever interests they want to have without pressure from society about it.

Actually, most feminist thought doesn't give a damn what you buy in a hardware store, it's more about thinking about why we make the choices we do and what steps we can take the gain equality.

[(Anonymous)]

So...ayrt needs to think long and hard about why they bought that gardening tool and if it contributes to inequality? Sorry, not every preference, hobby or interest requires deep thought about the history of sex and gender.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh please. Feminists have differences of opinion just like everyone else. Just because OP starts with "I'm a feminist" (and honestly I wonder if this whole post was just disingenuously intended to allow folk like you to say this kind of thing) doesn't mean she is "the voice of feminism". If you think gender roles suck, you are a feminist. Own it.

[(Anonymous)]

Take dance lessons. It might help improve your overall coordination and timing. You might not win competitions, but you will be less likely to embarrass yourself on a night out.

[ketita]

I think there's a huge difference between gender roles in jobs, which may prevent women from doing things they are perfectly capable of doing because of stupid reasons, and aesthetic gender roles.
Physically, men and women look different. Ballroom dancing plays along with these roles, and honestly, it's very beautiful to see good dancers move together. I don't think there's any point in feeling guilty over enjoying it.
If anything, look at it from the other side - this is an art form/sport where men and women must be paired and are equal partners. That's pretty cool.

If you really want to jazz things up for yourself visually, I've seen videos of men dancing in pairs, and there are ones of women pairs too, and things like the all-women's Takarazuka Revue where women play all the roles, and of course theaters like Kabuki where men play all of them.

[(Anonymous)]

Semi-relatedly, your comment reminded me of this (gorgeous!) ice dancing routine that includes a couple of genderbent lifts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Wqpc4xL5Q

[ketita]

ooooooooooooo that's beautiful

[sarillia]

I never even thought about this in terms of gender roles. It's not like it's impossible for either gender to dance either part.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Ehh, there's gay and lesbian ballroom, but the idea that feminists can't engage with traditional art or dance styles sounds suspiciously like either a strawfeminist, or a tumblr noob.

[(Anonymous)]

Saying shit like "this feminist opinion I think is dumb can only be a strawman" sounds awfully close to a strawman or a no true Scotsman itself.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, clearly I worded this badly. My problem isn't with personally participating in standard female gender roles. My problem is with participating in something (in this case ballroom), that is entirely rigid in gender roles.

And though, as some have pointed out, there is some same sex ballroom, the same roles apply, just in this case with one same sex partner taking each role. You don't see partners switching roles in a dance. You don't see a male/female partnership where the woman does the lifting and the man does the spins/show stuff. And certainly, who leads doesn't depend on body type. Why can't the woman do the typical spins and stuff but also lead?

And while on average there are certain body differences between men and women, there are muscular women who could do lifts and feminine men who could look amazing doing the stuff female dancers usually do. Yet, every time I see someone like this on a dance show, the men are told they dance too feminine and don't make it through, and the women are told they need to be more feminine and rely on the man and not lead and don't very often make it through.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

You don't see partners switching roles in a dance

Sure you do! I think you need to watch more.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I kinda agree with your initial point/dissonance of principles and aesthetics.

I have a friend whose parents are aged hippies - unmarried, the mum was a high-level research scientist, they vote (and live) green/progressive.... and they credit their non-separation after retirement and continued good relationship on taking up tango lessons, where the dude unequivocally gets to lead.