[ SECRET POST #3921 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3921 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Sekirei]


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07.
[Baby Driver]













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #561.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/XkBDQMF.jpg

[philstar22]

This is how I feel. There are some other fandoms that I think have great worldbuilding. But nothing comes close to Tolkien. I honestly think the fact that he created the languages first is part of that. He created a world that feels lived in. And as a linguist, he knew how languages would develop and change. So his world just feels very real.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Tolkien was not a worldbuilder. It's really frustrates me when "fans" misunderstand, if not actually piss on, his work, method, and reputation in this way.

[philstar22]

Uh, yes he is? He started with languages and drew from myths and legends that already existed, yes. But he did built a world that is fully fleshed out and realized. Just because that wasn't his primary purpose doesn't mean he didn't also do that too.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

The man staked his entire academic career on the radical proposition that Beowulf was to be interpreted as fiction and not as a historical archive of the lives of the Geats. And he says right in letter included in the frontmatter of the Silmarillion that he's creating mythology centered on "fall, mortality, and machine." Which is is the theme that makes sense of everything.

But he did built a world that is fully fleshed out and realized.

It's not. His text is riddled with anachronisms and retcons, some of which he attributes to a series of unreliable narrators (Bilbo primarily) and unnamed translators. The politics, social structures, and economics don't make a lick of sense compared against history. His geography famously doesn't make geologic sense. His historiography is nonsense even by the standards of his peers. It all makes storytelling sense, which is what matters.

[(Anonymous)]

I think that ship has long since sailed.

[(Anonymous)]

rude

[(Anonymous)]

I know it's not the same thing, but it's still really weird how in one moment you'll get a raging boner for Death of the Author, and the next go frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of Tolkien the World Builder. Also, to second the previous anon, that was rude.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I know it's not the same thing, but it's still really weird how in one moment you'll get a raging boner for Death of the Author, and the next go frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of Tolkien the World Builder.

Because his work doesn't make a lick of sense when read in the same subgenre as Ringworld, which is 90% about the goofy imaginative stuff Niven put into the setting. (Not that Niven's physics really stands up all that well.) Given a choice between praising Hobbit, LOTR, and Silmarillion as good fiction developed around a shared theme, or especially bad history, geography, and economics, why not look into what makes the work strong?

And it's a bit rude to complain about rudeness and then use phrases like "raging boner" and "frothing at the mouth."

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt - Maybe those phrases aren't polite, but it doesn't mitigate the rudeness of going out of your way to be rude to people who think Tolkien is a good world builder. It's a matter of opinion. OP and the people you responded to with your less than civil ranting managed to express theirs without tearing anybody down. It's a pity you couldn't do the same.

[(Anonymous)]

THE RINGWORLD IS UNSTABLE!
THE RINGWORLD IS UNSTABLE!

[(Anonymous)]

It's interesting, because this is such a strong part of what makes people care about LotR in the fandom, and I just... don't really care about it. It's a very small part of what makes me love LotR. I don't know. Makes me feel like I'm missing something.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel a bit like that, too, but sometimes when I look at this map, I feel like the mountains are a little convenient-looking. Like how the ones around Mordor are practically a rectangle and the ones across the north feel like a shorthand for "Everything up here has no bearing on the story." I prefer how things just peter out to the east, with fewer topographic features, rather than a wall of mountains. I don't mind it so much in Middle Earth, but I feel like a lot of subsequent fantasy writers inspired by Tolkien do a far worse job of inventing a world that looks decent geographically and topographically.

Of course, IRL, Europe is so weird-looking. It's like a hack fantasy writer drew a bad map and we're all supposed to pretend it doesn't look ridiculous and fake. Look at Italy sticking out there like that. Now look at South America. Sure, there's the pointy, scruffy bit down at the southern end, but you don't see any weird-shit boot peninsula sticking out, do you? No sir. South America is a proper and believable continent.

[(Anonymous)]

And Scandinavia! a bifurcated penis with Finland-testicles.

[(Anonymous)]

I choked on my drink, thank you.

[(Anonymous)]

you're welcome!

[dwell_ondreams]

Likewise.

[(Anonymous)]

Same here. of course, he stated that it is our world, just ages in the past. But there are so many resonances in the background and the use of language and folklore, it just feels like home somehow. And of course the fact that he spent several decades building that world really helps!

[(Anonymous)]

... and the fact that he borrowed heavily from existing saga didn't hurt either.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I think it's because he was a storyteller, and not a "worldbuilder" at least in the way that contemporary SFF considers worldbuilding, and he was writing about extremely human themes, weaknesses, and strengths.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed.

[(Anonymous)]

http://s4.pikabu.ru/post_img/2014/05/05/1/1399243229_2045945102.jpg
https://68.media.tumblr.com/6c2d8637a59e94d28415d6de3025ec30/tumblr_n15ymeIjGj1rjgqyvo1_1280.jpg

When I first saw these I've spent ten minutes trying to figure out which part of Earth it's showing until I realised it's not Earth at all. The Middle Earth map is so familiar and natural that no doubt had crept into my mind at first. :D

[(Anonymous)]

Those are neat, although the divisions between different vegetation covers are a bit too sharp and I think they could use more color variation within zones. At first, I thought Mirkwood was a giant inland sea!

[mimi_sardinia]

That second one needs clouds.