Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-06-20 05:11 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-06-20 05:11 pm
[ SECRET POST #532 ]
⌈ Secret Post #532 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #076.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
124.
I'm retyping this and in a bit of a hurry, since LJ ate it before D: but I really wanted to weigh in before I had to go.
I was raped and sexually abused by a relative at a really young age. That doesn't mean I understand what you went through - but I wanted to give that frame of reference. Everyone's experiences are personal to them, so I wouldn't want to belittle what you've been through by saying I totally understand.
However, fiction is only fiction. It's not fair for you to accuse someone of having a bad mentality when you don't know them personally. Noncon may be messed up - but you don't know the people who wrote it anymore than I know you. Writing something isn't the same as committing the act - anymore than writing about murder is killing someone. If we only wrote what we found to be moral, what we found to be acceptable to do, then fiction would be incredibly boring. I don't think most people in fandom who enjoy that sort of stuff think it's okay, in fact, from my awareness, a majority of them are working through their own issues brought on by their own terrible experiences. I don't see them as bad, disgusting people. Written fiction is very different than what happened to me.
Re: 124.
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(Anonymous) 2008-06-20 10:50 pm (UTC)(link)Re: 124.
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Wait, what?
Re: 124. Not the OP
(Anonymous) 2008-06-21 03:49 am (UTC)(link)I feel I need to contend with that point. In murder mysteries or stories of that ilk, there is most often a sense that the act committed was wrong, that it was a crime and should not have happened and thr person that committed it should be brought to justice. There is a feeling of unease attributed to the act in question. In a lot of "non-con" and rape fics, there's a sense of acceptance, that the reader should be getting a positive emotional or physical experience from it. Not the same thing at all, to me.
Re: 124. Not the OP
However, again I want to point out that it's still fiction. In writing, you can take on a voice that has nothing to do with you - explore urges you may or may not have, or are curious to understand. Lolita and A Clockwork Orange are both extremely subversive texts in that manner - creating an arguably sympathetic character out of people I'd like to spit on in the street. Should these books never have been written, because pedarasty and rape and violence are clearly terrible things? If read by the wrong person, they could miss the subversiveness entirely and just assume these are pornographic books.
But that's a literary perspective that has almost no bearing on the world of fanfiction and hentai. I can't say for certain because I've never done a study, but my guess would be a majority of people who enjoy these things are well aware that rape is a terrible thing and would not truly wish it on anyone. One of the pleasures from reading a taboo like that, I think, is that we're not suppose to enjoy writing or reading something so sadistic, because we know it's wrong to do so - like popping a zit, or eating an ice cream sundae. There's absolutely no value in either. And yet. And yet. Does reading or writing this thing truly hurt anyone?
The most offensive rape fic I ever read was actually a rape recovery fic where I just felt someone's verbal reaction to the situation was so melodramatic and stupid that I stopped reading right off. I had similar feelings to the OP - obviously this person doesn't understand, why would anyone want to write something like this because rape is so awful, etc. It made me genuinely angry, but I think the author was just immature. They obviously weren't out to hurt me, they obviously weren't pushing their agenda.
So if I feel that there's a way a reaction to rape 'should' be written, does that mean that fic was bad? I mean, obviously I thought it was, but it has its fans. If I feel that particular story trivialized rape, or all rape recover fics trivialize rape, should I condemn them all? After all, it's a terrible thing, so should it always be portrayed realistically in the manner I find most fitting?
I don't see much of a difference, honestly. The intended reactions of a non-con sex fic or a rape-recovery fic are completely different, but both could have the power to make someone feel as if the subject were belittled. But you simply can't police people to write your own viewpoint. No matter how gratingly wrong others may seem to you. At least that's my feeling on it.
124 OP
(Anonymous) 2008-06-21 03:58 am (UTC)(link)I hate that they can't call it what it is, and I hate that the realism of the act is totally ignored by calling it "non-con". This was honestly more aimed at people who think a bad person should be raped, simply because they hate said person.
I hope you've been as lucky as I have been in getting help.
Re: 124 OP
That being said, my own viewpoints on the subject have caused me to write some things that are reactionary to the fantasy - to inject some of the painful reality to things like incest and rape. Because I think people do need to be aware of it, and the subject should still make them a little guilty and uncomfortable. However, that's the emotion I wish to incur. I can't say what's right or wrong for another person, or how they should feel or what they should write. I sometimes wish people did understand more - but I think a lot of people truly do, they're just less sensitive to the whole picture than you or I are. And I guess I envy that a little bit rather than condemn it. I'd like to be able to place a rift so easily.
As for people saying so and so 'should' be raped? That's common internet hyperbole for you, right up there with 'die in a fire.' People don't say what they mean, and yes, it is stupid and mean, just like middle school kids calling negative things 'gay.' My only suggestion would be what I did to get everyone around me to stop saying 'gay' pejoratively - give them a deadpan look (or emoticon :| ) and say, "Oh, so you mean it's [literal, painfully detailed interpretation of what they said - something like, "You wish that they were wounded painfully, suffered feelings of disgust and isolation, that their friends and family were hurt and traumatized too but didn't know how to get close to them, and they were never able to have a normal relationship?"]? You think that?" And if they have any sense they'll be embarrassed and say no, if not, you can always just say, "Oh. You're a jerk, aren't you?"
At least, that's my way of dealing with statements like that. Gets them to shut up a lot faster than getting upset over how wrong they are.
Thanks for the sentiment. I seem to be doing better and managing my life a lot better, but I never really seem to feel any better. Emo violins play, etc.