fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #532 ]

[ SECRET POST #532 ]

⌈ Secret Post #532 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #076.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

TB!1: I miss him too.

NS!1: I have never, ever, EVER understood why Goodshippers are such fucking sore winners. I understand being a sore loser. It makes sense to be angry if you didn't get something you wanted. (I didn't want her to end up with either of them; I wanted her to remain an equal member of the team with a life outside it and not have to be girlfriends with either of them, btw.) But to be angry because YOU WON and you think people aren't kissing your winner ass enough, and to get on other people's boards and comms and be rude to people who lost because they're not happy about it? That's poor sportsmanship. Why? I lost many friends for saying this, and for openly criticising people I had liked very much for the way they behaved on FW and in the "cornfield" in the wake of HBP. I'm glad it happened, almost, because it made me see what mean-spirited losers some of the people I thought I liked were, and what an asshole I had been for ever thinking FW was funny. But I still don't get it. You got what you wanted. What do your co-shippers want? They cared the most about what JKR wanted and she gave them what they wanted. Why do they still care that there are those of us who continue to ship what we liked shipping, ignore canon in our own fic (which they don't have to read) and criticise Rowling? I really think that it's kind of sick and disturbing--it's like half the people sailing with the Good Ship expected that the day after their ship became canon, all the Harmonians and Slytherfen and slashers would apologise for ever doubting and start licking their assholes or something, and they're mad that those people dared to be disappointed, dared to leave fandom, dared to keep writing AUs and jossed stories, and didn't just pack up and disappear into the night, so they continue to troll other people's comms and forums and journals and start arguments. Why did they expect that? Does that actually ever happen in any fandom? I used to have an icon that said "Ron's like Jesus in a way--I'd like him so much better if it weren't for his fans." I got rid of it but I wish I hadn't because I want to use it for this comment!

148. People don't say this because they think it's impossible to care about more than one thing. They say this because they like their shows the way they are, feel that their shows either reflect the real world as it is, come to fandom to relax because they have enough activism they have to do in the rest of their lives, or think it's a waste of your time. I believe that TV changes to reflect the way the real world changes, not that TV affects the way people really think about things. People don't say the N-word, for example, on television any more because to say it nowadays is to drop all pretence of decency; it's like wearing a T-shirt that says, "Hello, my name is X and I'm a proud racist asshole." When the other words that people are objecting to become that unacceptable, we won't hear them on TV anymore, either. Fandom discussions about racism and sexism also inevitably seem to devolve into fans who disagree with each other about whether a specific thing is racist or sexist beating each other up verbally, and to ship wank and het vs slash wank, but seldom in any direct action that TPTB will ever take notice of. I'd be a lot happier if people would write to Tim Kring about how racist the treatment of Maya and Alejandro was generally on S2 of Heroes, for example, rather than bitching because Mylar fans don't like any hint of Sylar/Maya and therefore we must all be racist sexist assholes instead of, you know, people who just don't want them to get together.

135. I like H/G when written by my fandom friends. I didn't like it when JKR wrote it; she didn't do a very good job. She's not a good romantic writer. Is it possible you feel the same way?

124. I'm sorry that happened to you, but not all rape survivors feel the same way about these stories.

122. That picture is very convincing. And anything's better than Yaeko. (If you are too dumb to tell the difference between a white person speaking samurai-era Japanese with a British accent and a modern Japanese person butchering samurai-era Japanese because the guys are wearing masks, there is no help for it.)

Edited 2008-06-20 22:16 (UTC)

Yes. It was better before it became canon.

It really was! Also, I cherished the rare H/G stories that didn't demand you to swallow a side order of R/Hr, which has never been my thing, because I always thought it would be the trainwreck it was in book 6 and 7 if it happened.

NS!1: I'm not a Harry/Hermione shipper, but, *APPLAUSE*.

Also *APPLAUSE* to your response to 148. I see this all the time in Doctor Who fandom. Seriously, there's people who think the fact Ten/Martha didn't happen is proof the show is racist. *facepalm*

135. I hate that she had to become pretty and popular for it to happen. Like she wasn't good enough the way she was. Yeah, that's the most feminist thing in the books. *eyeroll*

NS!1: I shipped Harry/Draco or Harry/Ginny and Hermione/anyone but Ron or Harry :) And the whole wank about Martha is ridiculous. Like, yes she was a maid in Human Nature, but that was based on a script that was originally written for Ace.

135. I hated most that she didn't really get over him like it said in book 5. It was after book 5 that I was most into H/G because I thought she got over her crush and was able to see Harry as a real person so that now if they got together they could have a real relationship.

You just don't like it because you don't like people analyzing why you're being privileged. Sorry.

I have no idea how to respond to this--although I am fond of a certain word that Penn & Teller use a lot. Most of the complaining I've personally done about this has involved people who I thought were very privileged bitching about Dean Winchester's inability to use language like someone who's been privileged enough to be able to attend a liberal arts school and take women's studies.

What?

Newsflash: It doesn't take liberal arts to know that calling a woman a whore or a skank just because you don't like her is fucking misogynist.

'd be a lot happier if people would write to Tim Kring about how racist the treatment of Maya and Alejandro was generally on S2 of Heroes, for example

And here I thought you were against anyone "censoring" TV (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/167206.html?thread=61153830&style=mine#t61153830). After all, when racism is no longer acceptable in society, they'll stop showing it on TV, right? Why would you want Heroes to pretend racism doesn't exist when it exists in the real world?

Oh, I'd be a billion times happier if they'd protest it as BAD WRITING than if they wanted to say "all things that might be interpreted as racist or sexist must not be on TV because the chillunz might get bad ideas." I am against censorship and remain so.

But I'd still prefer them writing to TPTB than tearing other fans apart.

Well, for someone who's meant to have left fandom, you're doing a pretty fucking bad job of shutting the fuck up and hardening the fuck up.

The fact that I'm no longer involved with HP fandom doesn't mean I don't have the right to have an opinion or ask the occasional question, mousie. I left HP fandom, not fandom as a whole, and I left my third husband, too, but that doesn't mean I never speak of him.

Edited 2008-06-22 01:10 (UTC)

It makes sense to be angry if you didn't get something you wanted.

Not when it was abundantly clear that you were never going to get the thing you wanted in the first place; then you're just being an idiot.

The idiocy is compounded when you continue to complain about not getting it many months, or even years, later.

I know R/Hr shippers have a difficult time with this concept, but I'll try:

It was not that fucking obvious.

I didn't have a dog in the race. I didn't want her to be with EITHER of them. And I really didn't think she would be, either. 90% of the stuff in the first five books that Goodshippers swear up and down is pure proof that she was going to go for Ron eventually can in fact be interpreted in other ways. Unless you enjoy that particular type of chemistry, you will not see it as evidence that she is falling for him. Many people bicker without being interested in each other. She bickers with them both. Her reaction to his behaviour regarding the ball is a perfectly normal reaction to being asked to a big dance at the last minute by a lameo friend who assumes you're too nerdy to have a date even if you're not the least bit interested in the lameo friend. She gave him and Harry the exact same X'mas presents.

I know that the shippers and JKR think it was obvious, but I don't ship H/Hr, and I still didn't think it was even remotely obvious.

And continuing to write what you love instead of canon isn't "complaining about not getting it". If you don't like what you got, why should you play that way?

This sort of knee-jerk reaction is why I find you so amusing. I love how you pride yourself on being something of an "intellectual," all the while leaping to wild conclusions and totally missing the point.

Then there's that wide brush you love to wield. Hint: gross generalizations and black-and-white thinking are not the mark of an intellectual. Taking my assertion that Harry/Hermione was insupportable in canon and leaping to the conclusion that I am therefore a dedicated Ron/Hermione shipper (because what else could I possibly be, in your conveniently dualistic little universe?)* isn't just sloppy thinking; it's not even thinking at all. There is a difference between "responding" and "reacting." I suggest you ponder that difference.

I know that the shippers and JKR think it was obvious, but I don't ship H/Hr, and I still didn't think it was even remotely obvious.

Interesting. So because it wasn't "remotely obvious" to you, oh Great Fandom Intellectual, nobody else could possibly have figured it out?

And continuing to write what you love instead of canon isn't "complaining about not getting it". If you don't like what you got, why should you play that way?

You're comparing apples and oranges.

None of my ships are canon. One was always non-canonical; the others got jossed hard in HBP and DH. That doesn't stop me or my fellow shippers from writing them, and nobody gives us any grief for doing so. Right now, in fact, I'm writing a fic that is canon up to OotP, then takes liberties with everything that came after. It's not about "fixing" anything JKR's broken; I just want to read this story, and maybe someone else will too.

Writing fic outside of canon, or even critiquing canon, isn't what lands people on F_W, the_hms_stfu, or hp_cornfield; it's writing stupid, poorly-conceived, sub-literate "essays" about how horribly one's favorite character was treated, or speculating on JKR's mental state, or raging against her answers to interview questions because they mess with one's fanon. It's grossly overestimating the importance and validity of one's opinion regarding JKR and the books. It's insisting that the author got her own story wrong.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is nothing wrong with not liking all or part DH (there were parts of it I disliked, even as I was satisfied with it on the whole). Unfortunately, many people in fandom are incapable of expressing their dissatisfactions without vilifying JKR, suggesting those who disagree with them are irredeemably shallow and stupid, or turning it into a therapy session. It's the persistent, ugly bitterness and grudge-holding that gets one mocked, and deservedly so.

"Writing what you love" =/= "complaining about not getting it." Unless, of course, you love complaining about not getting it, which some people clearly do. The rest of us have just got on with writing fic and having fun, because that's the whole point of fandom.

DO NOT FEED THE ATANIELL, N00B!

AWWW, BUT SHE'S SO HUNGRY FOR ATTENTION, BB!

Why do they still care that there are those of us who continue to ship what we liked shipping, ignore canon in our own fic (which they don't have to read) and criticise Rowling?

You (gen.) write meta or fic that says 'Rowling is a bad writer' and that she did things wrong and that she forgot her own canon. People who liked all the books read it and get annoyed, so they write about how that's stupid and if you don't like it, you should actually leave the fandom and stop talking about it. Anti-canon fans read that and get annoyed that they're being told they shouldn't write about disliking the books, so they write more meta about how if people WON then they should BE HAPPY and NOT HATE. Canon fans read it and get mad because they're being told they can't talk about liking the books and being tired of reading meta about how sucky it was (and therefore how they have no taste), and so on. Et cetera.

They don't have to read anti-canon meta, and you don't have to read annoyed canon fans. But you both do it. If you actually hate this and aren't just using it to get attention for ranting about those damn' canon fans, then stop continuing the circle and stop going on about R/Hr shippers.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #532 ]

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135

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Well, bless your heart...

Re: Well, bless your heart...

Re: Well, bless your heart...

It's circular.