fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #537 ]

[ SECRET POST #537 ]

⌈ Secret Post #537 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 132 secrets from Secret Submission Post #077.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ], [ 1 - empty comment ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm reluctant to agree or disagree, since I don't know which particular fanfics you're alluding to, and what different people think is IC for Sylar seems to be insanely variable (I'm happy as long as he's a narcissistic killer with mommy issues, but according to some people anything gentler than a sociopathic rapist is woobiefied)

I know there are grey areas with Sylar (and every other character under the sun) and that's awesome! I'm talking about pointless AUs where Sylar is the lead singer in a rock band and has no issues, no characterization, no connection to the canon character other than the HOT, fics where Peter/Mohinder and Sylar buy a kitten together and snuggle and every other fic by aussievamp.

This is all done badly. Like Sylar had a, heh, lobotomy or total personality transplant. I would not have an issue with Mohinder and Sylar argue playfully about whether to name their new dog fluffy or snookums and then making dinner and flirting if there was some sort of reason for it! Like, Matt went evil and decided to mind control both of them into playing out such a scene because he has a kink for scenes of domestic bliss after his unhappy childhood/marriage.

But the people writing this stuff do not like Sylar's characterization they just think ZQ is hot and so they ignore it.

Okay, that's a lot of words. But Sylar is a very dear character to me! :D

Oh my, do I agree.

I think it's fine if people want to read that kind of AU; I don't, but whatever.
But I pretty much go by the rule of if it's not IC, it isn't really the pairing, especially with pairings like Sylar/Mohinder because their distinct characters are so essential to their relationship.
You're right -- that kind of thing is completely based on ZQ's looks, not the actual character of Sylar, which makes it like, what -- half RPS? Creepy.

(Also, I would totally read that evil!Matt fic -- that's actually a clever idea! And that's another thing -- there are so many ways to squeeze in events that would otherwise be OOC if you just get creative. But it feels like nobody wants creative; they want OMGSMUT.)

As you say though, some people do want to read this kind of AU, for whatever reason (they must do, otherwise the fics wouldn't be reviewed, the author would get disheartened and stop writing or change, and it would be a non-issue).

I really think the only workable solution is for a group of the people who hate these fics to set up their own archive. Rota in a few days each where they have to read every fic that comes through comm X, and if a fic passes muster, it gets archived. That way each individual only has to put up with a few days of hunting for a month's worth of fics (if there are enough participants).

Or am I being too pragmatic?

No. That's exactly what I was thinking about. Really. It would be workable if you had some of the writers who were tired of that kind of fic to come on board to start it off and then it might be successful.

The only problem I can think of is that people might see it as some sort of 'elitist' thing and get upset. Or maybe the idea of moderating submission might rub some people up the wrong way.

I still think it's a good idea.

It's something I would leave to readers rather than exclusively to writers, if you keep it as a recommendations list with benefits then any screams of elitism carry far less weight.

I would see it working like this: Ten people get together and organise a rota for watching the heroes_slash and heroes_fic communities. Each person has three days each (and someone gets 4 occasionally) when they must read, or at least skim, every new story on the communities. Anything that is in-character and of sufficient quality, in their opinion, is put on the recommendations list and/or archived (depending on permission from the author). Three days of effort for a month of pay-off, it seems like a decent investment.

Obviously there would be problems with different people's opinions of character and quality, but if you can organise ten people with similar tastes then it should work (similar concept to trusting friend A's recommendations, but not friend B's).

This. Someone please do this.

I'm prepared to be an eleventh member, and do the organisation part (and the rec list for the 31st, to save arguments). I'm quite happy with admin duties like organising the rota, and making sure no-one is scribbled in for days when they are on hiatus/have exams/otherwise engaged.

I'm less inclined to volunteer as a regular reviewer though, since I suspect I'm relatively forgiving over characterisation, and I'm not into confrontation (discussion yes, heated 'ur doin it rong!' debates, no thank you).

If anybody wants to have a go at it, let me know (either reply here or send me a PM).

I think this is a wonderful idea. Especially the part about it being more or less a rec list.

The only problem is setting it up. You need to find people who agree on a certain characterisation, preferably without advertising for them on general communities (because that would be wankbait, pure and simple).

PMing the people you think might be a good fit is the only way to drum up interest without advertising in the comm's.

It's a really good idea and you seem level-headed enough to set it up and avoid wank (in as much as that is possible). I'd offer to help but I too am far too forgiving on characterisation to be anything but a hinderance. I hope it gets off the ground, I think it's needed.

Hmm, I'm not sure who I'd approach though. Most people who express a preference are either ranting (not always coherently) or adding a "WORD" to a rant, and I'd rather know more about their specific wants before assembling a group (I am going to have to paraphrase the A-Team opening credits, this is not debatable).

Maybe those of us who are forgiving but have limits should set one up? It would at least be some help.

And then if it does work, those who want more stringent guidelines can clone the set-up and make their own.

I agree with the above poster who says that you seem level-headed and I think that in practice it might not be that hard to find a group that has similar views on characterization. It'll probably have to be forgiving by the very nature of the thing.

It's a shame that it might cause a fuss if you posted it in any of the main comms because I know you'd have no shortage of volunteers then. Then again, I'm not sure how you'd avoid any wank that would be coming because you're going to have to announce it at some point anyway. This little thread here is no doubt being missed by plenty of people who would be interested.

Perhaps the people to approach would be the people who comment on fic? I'm completely willing to volunteer to help out myself if you find yourself lacking in manpower.

This being called level-headed is going to go to my head, lol.

Help would be amazing as far as I'm concerned, consider yourself in. =)

I know it will have to be announced at some point, but I think it should be easier to control any damage that follows "These are the fics we recommend, updated regularly!" than "We need reviewers! But only if your characterisation parameters = our characterisation parameters!"

I'm debating contacting everyone who agreed with secret 121, but then I wonder exactly what they consider to be IC (I genuinely have seen people ranting that Sylar = sociopathic rapist, no exceptions. I found that just as disturbing as Sylar = fluffy bunny). Hopefully there will be a lot of interest, my ideal world situation would be small teams of readers (maybe 3 or 4), so the recommendation post consists of the stories everyone agrees on, and then each reviewer's also ran.

I think I'll set up a public post in my journal for ironing out the details of how this could work, just for ease of use.

Ah I'll head over there then. I hope some of the anons do too, I know I've seen a lot of comments now and in the past that support this idea.

I love how we're in anon! Like thinking that taking a character way OOC to write poorly thought out, shallow fic is bad, is some sort of edgy and out there opinion. :)

I've never been in a fandom as big as Heroes before. All the craziness really came out of left field! I remember when the comm was first starting off and we hadn't even seen Sylar and the only Sylar fic on there was about Peter being abused/tortured/raped by this shadowy figure we only knew the name of. And then I think when people started to write proper fic with Sylar in it it was good but somewhere along the way people started writing this, yeah, half RPS stuff. Where did that come from?!

Attributing motives to people I don't know always makes me uncomfortable, but I really think it might be less "ZQ is HOT" and more wishful thinking in a lot of the fluffy fic cases (as in, "I love these characters, I want them to be happy, so I'll write that.")

You also seem to be leaping to the conclusion that anyone who writes Sylar OOC has excellent characterisation skills and is doing it deliberately, which I think might turn out to be a false assumption.

But why would someone who loved the character of Sylar want to write him that way? You know before you even see him that he's a murderer. If you love a character, essentially rewriting what makes them them is a funny way of showing it. (And if you like Mohinder then I really worry when setting him up with his fathers killer is your idea of happy times.)

And I know people don't necessarily have the best writing skills but it's a bit of a leap from one point to the other. I don't think you can accidentally portray a serial killer as all round nice guy.

Have you never wanted to change someone you love? Maybe I'm bringing too much RL experience into this, but I can honestly understand the desire to change someone because you think they would be happier. Might not be right, but it happens IRL. And fictional characters are a lot easier to tweak, they can't fight back.

I prefer Sylar to be IC (or what I consider as IC, as previously stated, it's variable), but whenever I hear these fics dismissed as "You just think ZQ is hot!" then I can't help thinking that more complicated motives are being dismissed out of hand. And dismissing motives out of hand generally weakens an argument.

As to the leap, you're assuming a direct line from canon to fic, without any influence from well written fanfics with an IC Sylar portrayed in a sympathetic manner.

Ugh, this all sounds so serious, fanfiction =/= serious business, honest. I'm not saying these fics are in character, I'm saying I'm bemused by the whole attitude of "HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN!!!ELEVENTY!ONE!" when it seems like normal human behaviour.

I love it when people explore characters, I bet there are/could be some really good redemptive Sylar fics out there! I think there's a difference between Sylar being portrayed in a sympathetic manner and someone blatantly ignoring everything about the character. I guess it's like PWPs, except these are fluff without plot. No explanation for why Sylar has had this miraculous change of heart.

http://poetess-noire.livejournal.com/16687.html <- Apart from a reference to 'the company' you could change all these characters names around and it wouldn't make any difference. I guess it's fanfiction because they have the same names as the guys on Heroes, but who would know otherwise?

Honestly, I understand why you wouldn't want to assume things about the writer. I'd just say, even if someone does have a reason for writing those kinds of fic other than a crush on ZQ (which fair enough, you're right, there probably are lots of reasons), it's still badfic. And yeah, that's not the end of the world, of course! But hey, it's fandom!secrets, where fictional characters save people's lives on a regular basis. ;)

I think our discussion is at cross purposes. I'm pointing out that "You're only doing it because [insert actor here] is HOT" is probably only one of many reasons for these fics, and you're... Well, you appear to be saying "But it's badfic!" as if that's evidence that the author definitely writes it OOC because they think ZQ is hot, and couldn't possibly be because they think Sylar would be happier if he wasn't a killer.

And I strongly dislike name-and-shame tactics on public boards (whether they are deserved or not, I don't know), so I think I'm going to refrain from further discussion on this thread.

Fair enough, I didn't understand that was the point you were trying to make. I don't disagree with you on that.

(And I'm sorry it looked like name-and-shame. I guess there's no way I could have given you an example of the type of fic I'm talking about without it coming across as mean. But since we were talking at cross purposes it was unnecessary anyway.)

If you do want a way to offer an example without publicly posting links, my method is to ask if it's okay to PM the information. That way the example is shared without offering a target to any passing trolls.

I know it's unnecessary in this case, I just thought I'd throw the suggestion out in case you find yourself in this position again - and don't want to name and shame.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #537 ]

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