[ SECRET POST #3973 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3973 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 48 secrets from Secret Submission Post #569.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/zh0T0J0.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe you could read some of the high fantasy published in this millennium? There's been plenty that isn't misogynistic and lots either switch the gender roles or do away with them entirely.

[(Anonymous)]

Whenever a secret mourns the absence of X and someone snaps back with a huffy "There's plenty of X available!" and then doesn't actually list a single rec, I get a little cynical. But perhaps I'm wrong. Recs?

[(Anonymous)]

Recs?

[(Anonymous)]

Is that still an accurate characterization of the genre as it has existed over the last five or 10 years?

[(Anonymous)]

Because the last 5 or 10 years has been so non-misogynistic?

[(Anonymous)]

Two words, Anon.

Tamora Pierce.

[cloudtrader]

But... the Lioness series is basically all about misogyny! Like, sure, the main character is fighting against stereotypes, but the entire world is against her. I took the OP's secret to mean that she would like to see some fantasy literature without baked-in systemic misogyny in the culture of the fantasy world.

Now, it's been a long time since I've read Tamora Pierce, so maybe I'm wrong. Can you point me towards some of her works which don't have the same social underpinnings of gender that our world has, please?

[tabaqui]

Thy C J Cherryh's 'Fortress' series. Also her 'Dreamstone/Tree of Swords and Jewels' or the 'Rusalka' series.

[supermanda]

I think this is why I've only been drawn to the genre if the characters are all of a different species, like in Spyro.

[(Anonymous)]

Katharine Kerr's Deverry series is interesting in that it's set in a sexist and misogynist world but the author is critical of that. Lynn Flewelling and Tamora Pierce are also great for non-sexist fantasy. For older stuff, Mercedes Lackey has a lot of problems but sexism or misogyny are not among them.

[greghousesgf]

not only are there fantasy novels that are less sexist, you could always write your own feminist-friendly fanfic (excuse the alliteration) taking place in Middle Earth, Narnia, Oz, Hogwarts or wherever.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get people that reply a secret like 'I wish I can read more x' with 'maybe you should write x'

It's not like reading and writing is a completely different artistic activities or anything,

[(Anonymous)]

da fuq? they said they want to read real books written by real writers who can get them published

not write/read shitty Tolkien fanfic

[a_potato]

I'm someone who writes what she wants to see, but...

Why is your suggestion that OP write? What if she has no talent or passion for it? What effect would that have on her opinion?

[(Anonymous)]

I feel you, OP. I think that this will change eventually, but it'll be gradual... fueled by people like us, who love the high fantasy genre but not the BS that often comes with it.

[mimi_sardinia]

Here I thought you were picking at the Belgariad in particular and was going to say that it is now an old series. But I looked again and nah, you were just using that picture.

I think the reason why sexism is so often included in fantasy is because the writer is well aware that the sort of eras in history that High Fantasy is thematically based on (Middle Ages) were very sexist times. If not actively mistreating one gender over the other, then passively because of accepted gender roles. They may think it doesn't ring true if the society they are writing doesn't have some faults and sexism is an easy one to include.

Of course the other reason for it may simply be the author was sexist, and that may have been only passive sexism of their era/age/whatever.

Frankly I respect the first case better, because it indicates an awareness of sexism.

[meredith44]

It's been awhile since I read them, and I've read mostly urban fantasy since, so the details are a bit fuzzy, but I think Brent Weeks' high fantasy wasn't misogynistic. I mean yeah, there was a male ruler as the main character, but there were definitely women who had agency and/or were in positions of power, and I don't recall feeling a misogynistic vibe when I read it.

[a_potato]

OP, are you looking for gender roles to be dispensed with, for them to be different, or for them to be challenged?

I personally haven't read fantasy where they're totally dispensed with, so I wouldn't be able to help you there. But if you're looking for them to be different: 'Enemy' by K. Eason is pretty good. The main female character comes from a society where men are considered inferior.

Amanda Downum's Necromancer Chronicles makes distinctions between classes, races, and entities more so than it does between genders (although there's still some of that). And the main character is powerful, badass, and decidedly human (i.e. she gets fucked up in some of her fights) all at once.

And I know Brandon Sanderson is controversial in some circles, but he consistently presents gender roles as something to be challenged. His characters defy them, in every single one of his books.

[(Anonymous)]

As a kid who started reading er, adult novels? pretty early, the sexism in fantasy freaked and grossed me out quite badly. As I got older, newer published books seemed to sound better in that aspect, but whenever I pick one up I still can't get into any of them, and I realized it's not just sexism, but generic power play that always seems to play a big part in fantasy. Magic? Born powerful, or chosen for great power, or useless. Royalty? Born to be king, or nothing. It feels the same as sexism, or even racism, to me, and is just so hard to avoid in fantasy that I realized I'll have a better time reading books from other genres.

[(Anonymous)]

THE OLD KINGDOM SERIES BY GARTH NIX

YOU'RE WELCOME

(Sabriel, Lirael, Abhorsen, Clariel, also some shorter stories)

[dreamingofcats]

I think Queen of Blood is pretty good in being feminist-friendly. Love the female friendships and sex positivity.

[killertofuuu]

I wish I had some specific recs, OP. Fantasy, high or low, is a genre I struggle to read personally. :(

I recommend exploring the High Fantasy tag on goodreads and picking out some stories that seem appealing. Here's a link: https://www.goodreads.com/genres/high-fantasy

[cbrachyrhynchos]

High Fantasy in particular has a pretty bad "no true fantasy" problem in that if you point to Kameron Hurley or Nora Jemisin (Inheritance, not Broken Earth) they're treated as exceptions because they're not quite tropey or Tolkienesque enough. Bujold seems to be putting out more Chalion these days in novella form, so that might be an option although that's only a half-dozen works to date. For older stuff, Tor is doing a retrospective on Norton, and I should dip back into some Cherryh one of these days.

[elf]

PC Hodgell's God Stalk (and series, but I haven't read past the first) was one of my early favorites. I won't say there's no sexism (and haven't reread it in the last few years, where my standards have shifted), but it's definitely not "heroic brawny dude who saves innocent womengirls from villains." They're available in normal book places and as non-DRM'd ebooks through Baen.

I've only read a few of these, but james_davis_nicoll has a list of Twenty Core Epic Fantasies Every True SF Fan Should Have On Their Shelves; part of his "Core Books" series. They won't be devoid of sexism, but they won't be glorifying it.