Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-06-29 05:07 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-06-29 05:07 pm
[ SECRET POST #541 ]
⌈ Secret Post #541 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
__________________________________________________
102.
__________________________________________________
103.
__________________________________________________
104.
__________________________________________________
105.
__________________________________________________
106.
__________________________________________________
107.
__________________________________________________
108.
__________________________________________________
109.
__________________________________________________
110. [repeat]
__________________________________________________
111.
__________________________________________________
112.
__________________________________________________
113.
__________________________________________________
114.
__________________________________________________
115.
__________________________________________________
116.
__________________________________________________
117.
__________________________________________________
118.
__________________________________________________
119.
__________________________________________________
120.
__________________________________________________
121.
__________________________________________________
122.
__________________________________________________
123.
__________________________________________________
124.
__________________________________________________
125.
__________________________________________________
126.
__________________________________________________
127.
__________________________________________________
128.
__________________________________________________
129.
__________________________________________________
130.
__________________________________________________
131.
__________________________________________________
132.
__________________________________________________
133.
__________________________________________________
134.
__________________________________________________
135.
__________________________________________________
136.
__________________________________________________
137.
__________________________________________________
138.
__________________________________________________
139.
__________________________________________________
140.
__________________________________________________
141.
__________________________________________________
142.
__________________________________________________
143.
__________________________________________________
144.
__________________________________________________
145.
__________________________________________________
146.
__________________________________________________
147.
__________________________________________________
148.
__________________________________________________
149.
__________________________________________________
150.
__________________________________________________
151.
__________________________________________________
152.
__________________________________________________
153.
__________________________________________________
154.
__________________________________________________
155.
__________________________________________________
156.
__________________________________________________
157.
__________________________________________________
158.
__________________________________________________
159.
__________________________________________________
160.
__________________________________________________
161.
__________________________________________________
162.
Notes:
Now affiliated with
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif){kind=small}
aa_secret, Ace Attorney secrets!Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #078.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - empty comment ], [ 1 - random link ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
In response to the secret, if something is making you uncomfortable, try taking a look at why. :\ Not that I'm a psychologist, but I think a lot of the reason why the fringe fandom kinks make people squirm is because they know it's pretty seriously lacking in societal approval. The issue isn't so much "this is uncomfortable" as "what if I'm caught". If the only cause of your discomfort is "what if I'm caught", then you pretty much need to weigh in on whether or not you're going to let someone else's potential (not even actual!) disapproval get in the way of something you enjoy.
And of course, I can't address the secret without addressing the wank. (I'm probably lucky I didn't go to a zoo often as a child — undoubtedly, I'd try and poke the sleeping bear.)
Lollicon squicks you? Then go ahead and stay out of it. That's all it takes. It doesn't hurt actual children, which is the reason why 2D lollicon is still legal—and the reason why I expect it to stay legal, whatever potential laws may be floating around various governments at the moment. Non-biased studies have never shown that exposure (or even enjoyment) of a type of pornography will lead to committing the crime depicted. And by non-biased, I don't mean asking 1,000 rapists if they like rape-porn, because then it just becomes a chicken/egg scenario. (I will grant that remarkably few unbiased studies seem to even exist, which says a lot for the strength of people's opinions on the matter.) In the case of lolli specifically, the viewer actually tends to put themselves in the child's place when fantasizing. That's hardly something I'd worry about causing someone to become a predator.
You can dislike the art form all you like, but it doesn't hurt anyone, it doesn't lead to hurting any one, and I've yet to see a single argument that doesn't boil down to "ew" or an unsubstantiated claim of cause-effect.
Now for the obligatory fantasy =/= reality. Humans fantasize about all sorts of things that are complete and utterly against standard western morality. Incest, violence, rape, being raped. Do I even need to add vampirism, bestiality, necrophilia or guro? It's normal, and it's not something to be ashamed of, no matter what various "moral leaders" and social pressure might claim. A competent sexual therapist can tell you the same.
no subject
no subject
There's no need to talk about guro and other fetishes, because those artists and fans at least have the sense to be aware that their sexual interests are unusual and not foist them in everyone's faces. How many shows about vampirism and rape-porn are being put on Japanese television?
When, like I said, message boards constantly have to make rules against talking about kiddie porn because it becomes so prevalent, it becomes hard to "go ahead and stay out of it." To some extent or another, it has pervaded nearly every show currently in production because creators have become aware of its (disgustingly) mass appeal. It's getting harder and harder to avoid.
There is something terrifying about the "well, the internet says it's okay so forget what everybody else says!" mentality that is so prevalent in online fandom today, because it just deepens the cracks in people who are very often already fundamentally broken and pushes them past the point of any sort of life that could even be considered normal.
I don't know why I'm even bothering because I know I'm going to be ignored because I'm just THE MAN KEEPING YOU DOWN, but somebody has to try to be the voice of reason. It's not not like some "moral leaders" (whatever the hell that means) sat in a room and made a list of things they thought would be hilarious to ban from social acceptance; these things are taboo because they are fucked up. I know the internet takes away inhibitions, but that doesn't mean that there isn't still a need for some goddamn decency. There's a difference between "bucking the norm" because you are a little weird and having some unusual tastes, and being incapable of functioning in normal society.
It makes me sad that a fifteen year old is already being encouraged into a completely abhorrent fetish, when she's at an age where shit is confusing enough as it is.
no subject
There are no children here. Above that, lollicon art seldom even resembles the age group it's supposed to represent. We're discussing an art form displaying fictional depictions of fictional children. This is not child porn.
And in regards to other fetishes (a widely misused term, but I'll accept it at face value here), I personally think that we need more open discussion on these topics. Yes, that includes guro. Again I point to the very distinct line between fantasy and reality, a line which is strictly displayed in terms of sexual fantasy. Most women daydream about being raped—but it doesn't mean that they actually want to be raped. There's nothing inherently wrong in that sort of fantasy, and imbuing it with shame accomplishes nothing except to create a society where people are sexually repressed and afraid to even discuss issues which are honestly of concern to them.
Message boards are an excellent case in point. In all the bannings I've seen, the discussion is stopped because of the wars that start over it. Not because the topic itself is inherently immoral. Lollicon should be as open to sharing as any other interest in my opinion. I don't see how "X-group isn't as vocal" is a valid argument for y-group needing to hide their interest. Simply because western culture has developed a set of "sex is bad" and "fantasy is reality" generalizations doesn't mean that it's correct or healthy. I feel sorry for the poor OP, who is probably even more confused and ashamed after the mess this post has made of his/her secret.
"well, the internet says it's okay so forget what everybody else says!"
I hope you're not directing that at my statement. No one should allow an outside source to entirely dictate their personal code of ethics.
It makes me sad that a fifteen year old is already being encouraged into a completely abhorrent fetish, when she's at an age where shit is confusing enough as it is.
Two key words strike me here. The first is "abhorrent". This is your opinion, and you're perfectly welcome to it. If you noticed, my comment was aimed at "if you only are unhappy because other people think it's weird". There's perfectly valid reasons for finding lollicon unappealing - but fear of being found out shouldn't be one of them.
The other word that struck me is the common misuse of "fetish", which I just can't let sit. A fetish is something that causes a habitual sexual response, and can frequently be required in order to achieve sexual satisfaction. (Note that this is separate from orgasm.) A lollicon fetishist would be someone who finds anime-style art of young girls in sexual or suggestive poses consistently arousing. I doubt the OP is developing a "fetish" so much as a taste for the material in certain cases, seeing as it focuses apparently on a specific character. I agree that 15 is early to be exploring fetishes in practice. Fantasies (especially dream-based fantasies) such as the OP mentions are a completely different matter.
I'm sorry if my reply is snippy, but any time I see the words "decency" or "abhorrent" in arguments like this, it makes me very, very annoyed. I hold myself very firmly to a standard that "if I'm unable to explain logically why something is taboo or immoral, I must consider that only historical precedent and society continue to keep it so, when in fact the matter may be open to discussion". For me, lollicon falls directly into this chasm.
Clearly, many people feel otherwise.
no subject