[ SECRET POST #4003 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4003 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #573.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[a_potato]

I'm not sure fandom in general was ever "ship and let ship," honestly. There's always been pockets of people who approached things that way, but there's also always been the ship warring type.

[nightscale]

Hell I remember the goddamn anon meme's from LJ, those places were a cesspit of wankery.

I think the ship-wars were easier to avoid since you kind of had to go looking for them, but they were absolutely there and no less stupid and nasty(just a different kind of nasty tbh, people still got personal insults lobbed at them for what they liked).

[(Anonymous)]

I think this kind of hits the nail on the head. There was still a lot of wank, but with moderated communities it was easier to avoid. I remember a friend who liked one of the ships talking about how Harry/Hermione and Harry/Ginny shippers would go to the others forums and see how many troll comments they could post before they got banned and their posts deleted. But at the same time there was a mod to go in and ban and delete and try and keep things on topic.

[nightscale]

Oh certainly, modded comms is what kept most of it in check.

The issue with current fandom platforms is that there are no mods at all and the tagging system on tumblr is completely fabernucked so that even if you don't tag the ship it'll still end up in the ship's tags because you mentioned it in the post.

Like that's just asking for all sorts of trouble frankly, fandom does not get along well when we're in different camps, we need to be separated.

The moral posturing is ofc stupid as fuck, but it's just a different tune to the same old ship-war song we've been having for decades. It'll be something new in 5 years.

[a_potato]

You know, the odd thing is (and I know it's odd, because it's contrary to pretty much everyone else's experience) I've found it easier to avoid now. There used to be so much shit in the general forums I'd go to, and the ship-centric ones would have all sorts of trash-talking threads, and would attract all sorts of trolls (as would fic).

On tumblr, I've found I can very easily control my experience through who I follow and by how I tag my posts. In three years, I haven't gotten a single hateful message (despite writing for, among other things, an infamous incest ship), and I've only witnessed hate when I've gone looking.

That said, tumblr does make it a lot easier to spearhead harassment campaigns. In many respects, I've been lucky; others have not been.

[nightscale]

Tbh the blacklist and block tools are a god-send because I can literally remove tags and people that I just don't want to see so I've never had a hard time avoiding hate. I either block them or just put the tag in the filter and job-done, and like you I don't go looking for hate in the first place(I never have, even back on forums and LJ).

Now I won't claim that tubmlr fantastic, because it's really not. It's broken in a lot of ways, and the culture on there is definitely scary as shit in places, but it allows you to fully cultivate your dash and I have never gotten a single bit of anon-hate or nasty messages over things I like.

As opposed to LJ where a friend of mine got hate-mail for two solid months because she wrote for the 'wrong ship', and due to an ex-fandom friend name-dropping me in a fight they were having I got constant hate-messages daily until I deleted my account and started over.

The harassment and doxxing is out of line though and I do wish there were actual ways to punish the perpetrators of that.

[a_potato]

I think the prevalence of doxxing is the actual change, and it's really awful and toxic. But given that it's sprouted up across the internet as a whole, I wonder if the only reason it wasn't there before is because we were all much more circumspect about our identities in the old days.

[nightscale]

I think that's part of it certainly, people are a lot more frivolous with the personal information they share online(which just boggles my mind, I never tell people my real name and I'll never post pictures of myself either).

Now this doesn't make the people doxxing free of blame, they're still the shitheads in this situation, but modern internet culture I think does aid towards how common-place and almost acceptable it's become.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, depends on the fandom. I know when I look for fics on ao3 some assholes tag for one ship but just bash a character from that ship they hate and then make their OTP the endgame ship. That's not just one person, it's happened a couple different times.

The ship tags are always a gamble. Sometimes they are safe and sometimes there is some shit stirrer trying to play innocent. Even if you only stick to a few fandom centric blogs they might get caught up in drama.

The smaller or slower moving a fandom is it's probably easier to deal with, some fandoms are impossible to contain.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe I'm naive but it feels different.

Because of the way antireylo has grown on tumblr, and tumblr blurs all the boundaries between fandom and SJ and teen aesthetic blogs etc... I just feel like a lot of the people reblogging shit about how Adam driver should kill himself wouldn't give a fuck if they actually had to hunt this content down themselves. They don't ship Rey with anyone, they just hate a villain and have distaste for hero/villain ships.

[a_potato]

I think the blurring between fandom and SJ is a problem. It's a...well, I have a lot of thoughts on this, because a lot of SJ discussion seems to revolve around popcorn movies that everyone is seeing and would have seen anyway, and it's all kind of shallow and navel-gazey so it almost can't help but devolve into purity contests, and it's a distraction from actual important issues, and if you buy into it, you get to feel like you're doing something good by denouncing certain subsets of fans without ever really having to do anything of consequence.

But.

I...don't know. There were still these really intense pockets of hate in the old groups and communities, and, at the very least, I remember writers being told to kill themselves over plotlines that people disliked. There were also a lot of people in the Dark Angel fandom who hated Michael Weatherly enough to wish he were dead.

Maybe it's all a matter of degree. The audience is larger, so the crazy and cruel can increase at a faster pace.

[rosehiptea]

There have always been ship wars, including for incredibly stupid reasons. Anyone who remembers fandom as some kind of paradise where everyone let everyone else ship in peace is totally wrong.

But there was a lot less "If you like this ship/character/kink you must think this is OK in real life and I hate you for thinking that." Which is an attitude I'm getting really sick of.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe you were just in saner fandoms. I remember BtVS fandom for one being really into 'people who ship X must be Y', and the HP fandom, too.

[rosehiptea]

That could be part of it. I mean I was in some fandoms that had stupid wanky arguments for sure, but I wasn't in BtVS, and I stayed out of the shipwars in HP, so there may be aspects I didn't see.

[a_potato]

I really hate that attitude, as well, but in my experience, it also isn't new (and, in my formative fandom years, I also had the privilege of seeing "actor who plays Character A is rumored to have done Bad Thing, so if you ship Character A with anyone, you are endorsing Bad Thing").

Someone upthread had mentioned that there's a lot more visibility to this stuff now, so I imagine that plays a part in the overall perception that things changed.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, there have always been ship wars between competing ships. Now-a-days we have the morality police here to make shipping political and trying to make people feel guilty for whatever fabricated reason if a ship isn't pure sunshine and rainbows.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I think a better phrase would be "judge all you like, but don't stalk and harass other ships."

Certainly fandom secrets can get judgy about some things throwing "ship and let ship" out the window.

[a_potato]

That's a fair point, and I think it probably is a better way to approach things.