[ SECRET POST #4038 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4038 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 33 secrets from Secret Submission Post #578.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[wldcatsprstr_14]

No wank formed against Donna will prosper.

[(Anonymous)]

Seconded.

[(Anonymous)]

Thirded.

[(Anonymous)]

Fourthed!

[(Anonymous)]

Fifthed!

[tweedisgood]

Sixthed

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Not meant as wank, though. I genuinely didn't like her. Fandom loves her, that's why this is my secret.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Posting a batch of hate against any Doctor Who character is brand new revolutionary thing, though. Lots of people hate any given one of them. And have been arguing themselves in circles over which one is best/worst for years.

I'm sure you didn't mean to shit-stir, but you can't blame people for saying "nope, she's awesome, end of discussion" in re: to something they've been seeing for 10 years.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Are they blaming people for responding in that way to their secret, though?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I'm new to Doctor Who, so it hasn't been ten years for me.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure that your dislike is genuine, but insulting a character in this way is the kind of thing that generally and predictably causes wank

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't insult her, though, that's your interpretation of my secret.

[(Anonymous)]

How about reasoned criticism? Because they're not the same thing. I don't get the sense that OP is trying to stir the pot at all, and it seems unfair to imply they are trying to start wank just because they have a differing opinion.

[(Anonymous)]

It's Doctor Who, though. Wank is what the fandom just does. A lot of us are sick of it.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that calling a female character "bossy" for not being 100% on board with the actions and behavior of a male character could correctly be described as "reasoned criticism". It's hard to have a reasonable conversation about a secret when the secret is using weighted language like that. I think that calling Donna bossy and saying that she's too opinionated is a lot closer to trying to start wank than it is to trying to start a reasonable conversation.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Bossy is certainly a bit of a loaded word, but if you genuinely dislike a character because you feel they're too bossy/opinionated/domineering/overbearing, how are you supposed to word that in a less wanky way?

[(Anonymous)]

By grounding it in specifics about what the character is doing and what you mean when you say "bossy", and by being more analytical and trying to get at why those things bother you and why you think they don't work.

I mean, the problem isn't just phrasing, IMO. The problem is also that it's a bit of a lazy shortcut and stereotype that also often replicates a lot of flawed gender politics. Being more analytical and specific doesn't just make it less wanky, it also makes for better, more reasonable critique.

Or just say that you hate the character and you don't care to justify it, in which case, fair enough but you can't exactly say you're going for reasoned critique and not trying to start wank in that scenario.

[(Anonymous)]

Is there no middle ground between analytical/reasoned critique and an attempt to start wank?

[(Anonymous)]

"Attempt" to start wank implies intent, and intent is tricky to argue about. But certainly, I think there are topics where a reasonable person familiar with the fandom (as OP professes to be) should know and expect that posting a strong, unnuanced take is going to cause wank. And on that level, in terms of reasonable expectation of wank rather than intent, I'm not sure that there is a middle ground.

[(Anonymous)]

Then perhaps you are not as familiar with fandom as you profess to be.

[(Anonymous)]

I really don't understand what you're driving at, but ok.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

What, why? What's wrong with the word "bossy"? English is not my native language, it's not even my second one.

Cultural context

[tweedisgood]

Calling (especially) a woman "bossy" implies she has no business telling (especially) men what to do or, often , even expressing a contrary opinion. It's loaded with gender assumptions and historically has been used to shut women up and deny them authority.

Cf the word "shrill".