fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4049 ]

[ SECRET POST #4049 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4049 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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06. https://i.imgur.com/IvEX8Fl.png

People keep using that term "Extreme right" and "Far right extremists" and I wonder if the know what it actually means. Like, I don't ever remember a Penn and Teller episode "Why Blacks are inferior and need to get out of White countries"

Oh, and extreme right wing has little overlap with any breed of libertarianism. Extreme right wing tends to be pretty authoritarian.

Edited 2018-02-03 21:32 (UTC)

Yeah. I wouldn't call Penn and Teller right wing on social issues, per se. Perhaps in the fiscal sense and the small government sense, I don't know. But their stance on topics like gay marriage tends to NOT to be "gay people deserve equal rights including marriage" but rather "the government should butt out of everybody's marriages, straight or otherwise". And I'm like... well, maybe they're not wrong, but it feels like a bit of ideological grandstanding that misses the point in an #AllLivesMatter kind of way.

I dunno, I'll take my wins where I can get them. If you agree with the outcome I want, I'll take it even if you don't agree with the reason why. I don't need you to share my morals, but I'd like it if you help me to achieve my goals.

Eh. I don't disagree with you, but I'm also struggling to see how saying that the government shouldn't dictate anyone's marriage really helps gay people who want their marriages legally recognized. If anything, it sounds like someone assuring you of their support while they're comfortably seated on the fence.

Well it means that the government has only two choices, then doesn't it? Their statement means that the government needs to either stop recognising marriage at all for straight people or gay, or legalise it for everyone. It is a bit of a fence-sitty poition, but it's a fence the government can't afford to sit on. They can't un-recognise straight marriage, so by default it means they have to recognise gay marriage. I'd call the libertarian idea a valid support for gay marriage.

But the federal government still laws on marriage issues. No incest, no bigamy, no child marriage. So unless they are suggesting they'd be okay with all those laws removed, which is kind of gross at least with the last one, then they aren't really being consistent with their own philosophy.

there are DEFINITELY right wing libertarians. very much so.

Penn & Teller just don't happen to be right wing, afaik.

Oh, I agree, I've met them. but there are no right wing EXTREMIST libertarians - No, people will jump on that if I leave it as it is - There are of course some people who would call themselves that, I'm sure, but as far as libertarian ideals go, you can't be in favour of low governmental interference, and also that the govenment should do something about the JQ. People are perfectly capable of being inconsistant, but those two ideologies don't fit..

Your personal conception of those ideas don't fit together, but there are definitely people who claim that they do fit together and who identify quite strongly as extreme right-wing libertarians. whether or not their ideas are sound, it's a thing that does exist.

Well, extremeist ideas are almost by definition unsound, but I don't get how people can rationalise wanting small government and wanting to make sure the government steps in to help their ideologies?

I admit, I don't really know what somone who calls themself right wing would want, but as the right wing is a political stance dedicated to acquiring governmental control to secure their way of life, I can't see how any of that fits with libertarian ideals - which I do feel pretty secure on speaking about - about keeping government out of peoples business.

Edited 2018-02-03 22:27 (UTC)

I’ve also seen right wing used as a description for people who want the church to control everything. They’re big on freedom from government interference, so they might qualify as right-wing libertarian.

(no subject)

thewakokid - 2018-02-03 22:37 (UTC) - Expand

I'm not sure that "extreme right wing" necessarily entails aggressive state intervention - you could have, for instance, corporatist societies, or societies in which nominally non-governmental market mechanisms are used to achieve right-wing ends, or a free market but only within a right-wing social context enforced by authoritarian government action.

But generally, I'm thinking of the paleolibertarian current here, people like Ilana Mercer and Hans-Herman Hoppe, and then also definitely a bunch of people in the neo-reactionary movement, particularly Mencius Moldbug.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2018-02-04 01:41 (UTC) - Expand

Is this referring to something other than the "Fool Us" show with Ally H?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_%26_Teller:_Bullshit!

The logo of the show is right in the secret itself...

They're libertarian but not really right wing

I read this exact comment on Reddit a few days ago.

I remember watching some episodes of their show and I sort of enjoyed a few, but then it came to the animal rights episode where they painted AR activists as a bunch of asshole nutjobs. Then they stated they'd rather the last chimpanzee go extinct than a single methhead die, and I've hated them ever since. I've never seen so much anthropocentrism in all my life. Animals aren't machines, they're sentient beings just like we are.

Wow. That is a keen lack of self-awareness you're displaying right there.

Okay?

I'm just annoyed they got rid of the naked guys.

I could also do without Penn yelling that babies sucking tits are beautiful. I would never hassle a woman for breastfeeding but I don't think it's beautiful either.

I don't think you know what those words mean. Or: troll on, OP.

I agree. That gun episode. W?T?F?

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