fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4057 ]

[ SECRET POST #4057 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4057 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 38 secrets from Secret Submission Post #581.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Just gonna post this here, rather than responding in numerous places with the same comment.

I didn't make this secret, but it is essentially my opinion that someone nabbed from the general comments thread a while back, so I'll respond as though I were the OP.

To clarify, what I'm talking about is fics where there's major character death, or a main character gets raped, and the only warning is the "chose not to warn" tag. In that situation, yes, I acknowledge that the author has covered their ass by using the "chose not to warn" tag. But because 19 out of 20 times I encounter that tag there's basically nothing to warn for, it's impossible to know when that tag is actually being used for good reason. So every so often I end up reading a fic with main character death or main character rape and getting completely blindsided because the author "chose not to warn." Which is why I would love it if, in cases where there is something major to warn for but the author doesn't want to spoil it, they would just add some kind of additional author's note or something that would ping people's radar. Just an additional tag that says "I picked the chose not to warn tag for a reason" or "I don't want to spoil anybody but there's some dark shit in here" or whatever.

I'm not saying I expect people to do this. I'm just wishing they would.

The reason they use the tag is that they're choosing not to warn. That's the good reason. You're free to read their fic anyway, but you are knowingly taking the risk that there may be something that upsets you in there, because you've been point blank told that you're not getting any warnings about content, period.

The reason they use the tag is that they're choosing not to warn. That's the good reason.

If you use the "Chose not to warn" tag to mean "No archive warnings apply" you're using the tag incorrectly. If you use the "Chose not to warn" tag to mean "There could be something super minor in here that I'm not aware of that triggers someone so I'm going to use this tag just in case" you're using the tag in a way that is understandable but ultimately messes up the tagging system.

If you're using the "Chose not to warn" tag because there's something that needs warning for in your fic but you don't want to spoil people, that's totally cool, but in that case, I just wish people would take literally ten extra seconds to add a "seriously guys I chose not to warn for a reason" tag in the general tags area.

Do I leave hate when a fic blindsides me with super dark shit? Nope. Do I assume the author is a big, bad meanie who wanted to hurt me? Nope. Do I EXPECT people to take that ten extra seconds to add a "seriously guys I chose not to warn for a reason" tag? Nope. I just wish they would.

The issue I see here is that saying authors should maybe add a "seriously guys I chose not to warn for a reason" puts all the burden on the authors to... warn people AGAIN that they chose not to warn? I'm not sure I understand why it's the author's responsibility to babysit readers this way. If an author chooses not to warn, they've chosen not to warn... for whatever reason. That WAS your warning, and no additional "no but seriously" tag should be needed.

Here's the thing, certain basic warnings are standardized in fandom. You warn for rape. You warn for character death. You warn for underage. If your fic has that stuff in it and you don't warn, people get mad at you, and IMO, rightfully so.

The one workaround you have as a fic writer is the "chose not to warn" tag. If you have stuff you need to warn for but for whatever reason you don't want to spell it out, you can use the "chose not to warn" tag. It was a system that worked because that tag effectively gives readers the heads up that the fic has applicable warnings they might want to avoid, while allowing the author to not actually give specific warnings.

When people use the "chose not to warn" tag for fics that don't have content that merits warnings, it dilutes the efficacy of the tag. The tag no longer functions as a general warning and heads up to readers who may want to avoid CD/underage/noncon. The tags comes to mean absolutely nothing about the content of the fic. The "chose not to warn" tag is no longer fulfilling its purpose, which is to provide a way for certain things to always be warned for, even in cases where the author doesn't want to use specific warnings.

The "chose not to warn" tag is no longer fulfilling its purpose, which is to provide a way for certain things to always be warned for

That's not the purpose of the tag.

You are ascribing an implicit meaning to this tag that doesn't exist.

The tag's sole purpose is to warn the reader that the author is not using warnings.

1) "Basic" warnings are not "standardized" in fandom. You're required to warn for certain things on AO3 (or indicate that you've chosen not to warn and your work may or may not contain these things) but that doesn't mean that everyone agrees that authors must warn for these things or they're terrible horrible people who deserve to be yelled at. There may be very loud people in fandom who argue that authors who don't warn deserve to be yelled at, but that doesn't make their views the standard.

2) Choosing not to warn is not meant to function as a general warning. It's meant for authors who don't feel like putting warning labels on their fic, for whatever reason.

"Basic" warnings are not "standardized" in fandom. You're required to warn for certain things on AO3

You seem to contradict yourself here. By basic warnings, I mean (and clarified that I meant) warnings for noncon, underage, character death. And yeah, those warnings absolutely are considered standard and necessary. If your fic requires one and you don't use one, you can default to "chose not to warn" but that's about it. If you don't warn at all, people will jump on you. I've never bothered to jump on an author for disregarding their warning tags before, but from everything I've seen, their error will be pointed out to them by multiple people.

Choosing not to warn is not meant to function as a general warning.

This is such an odd perspective to me. For one, because it totally contradicts everything I saw people saying about the tag back when AO3 was fist getting its legs under it. But also, because this concept of what the tag is for just doesn't make any sense. If you don't feel like using tags and you don't have anything you need to tag for, then...whyyy are you tagging in the first place? You don't feel like tags and you don't need to tag, yet you are...using a tag to demonstrate your desire to not tag?

The "chose not to warn" tag only makes functional sense if it is being used as a stand in for tags the author doesn't want to divulge. Otherwise it's literally redundant.

You seem to contradict yourself here. By basic warnings, I mean (and clarified that I meant) warnings for noncon, underage, character death. And yeah, those warnings absolutely are considered standard and necessary.

Do you think that fandom begins and ends with AO3?

If you don't feel like using tags and you don't have anything you need to tag for, then...whyyy are you tagging in the first place? You don't feel like tags and you don't need to tag, yet you are...using a tag to demonstrate your desire to not tag?

By this logic, people who don't want to use tags shouldn't use AO3 ever, because even fics that are completely family friendly need the No Archive Warnings Apply tag.

They're not using the tag to mean no archive warnings apply, they're using the tag to mean they're not warning. For anything. Period. End of story.

Why is this so hard for you to get through your head? If there's something you really can't stand reading, don't read fics tagged "Chose not to warn". Don't try to shift the responsibility for your well-being back on an author who's already said "No, I'm not warning, read my fics at your own risk."

Well, to be honest, I think a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that different people actually do use the tag in different ways. There's no consensus standard. Nobody's really right or wrong, it's just confusing.

No, if you're using it as an indicator of whether or not there's warn-worthy content, you're using it wrong. You're welcome to continue using it wrong, but that's your choice and it's not the responsibility of the people who are tagging their fic as "Chose not to warn" to let you know that they really really mean it this time.

THIS.

I had no idea people were using the tag to mean "I just don't wanna tag my stuff" until today. That just seems so nonsensical to me. You don't wanna tag your stuff, so you'r...tagging your stuff to tell me you don't want to tag your stuff?

OTOH, I definitely DO remember conversations back in the old days of people discussing the appropriateness and usefulness of "chose not to warn" as a way for people who didn't want to spoil their fics of still warning people.

Obviously the way that the tag is being used has shifted significantly. Which is kind of what the secret is about in the first place. Except I thought people were now using the tag as a catch all (which I can understand even if it is inconvenient), whereas apparently people are using this tag because they...don't like using tags.

You don't wanna tag your stuff, so you'r...tagging your stuff to tell me you don't want to tag your stuff?

They have to tag their stuff with SOMETHING regardless, so... yes?

Not wanting to spoil the fic is just one reason that people have for choosing not to warn. If CNTW was just a tag for people too wishy-washy to use (for example) the graphic violence tag, CNTW would still be a spoiler that graphic violence definitely occurs within the fic.

I feel like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the warnings wanks of yore.

I think the way it's being used is still the same, some people are just confused about it's basic meaning.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4057 ]

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